donljacobs Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 New coil pack, new coil connector, check of vaccuum leak negative, check all injectors passed, ground wire good. Can you have a faulty Crank sensor without any code? I have only 0300 code now. Start car idles perfect, within a minute the idle goes rough, wait goes smooth. When taking off sometimes it catches and takes off, sometime not for a minute, but does catch and take off. At Hwy speed, it is hard to tell, but miss fires a little. Sometimes I think the engine is going to shake to pieces!! Any ideas are welcome. I just did HG and Rack and Pinnon, Tranny last year, most of the front end pieces. Starting to be very frustrating, Thanks much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Check your injector resistance for each injector. We will provide you with the spec. Do you smell fuel? Have you checked fuel pressure? Look the engine over very carefully, when they had the engine out, there are a LOT of grounds that must be reconnected. How are the plugs?, check their surface for carbon tracks and fine cracks and check their resistance, we will post the spec. If nothing, check the compression for each cylinder Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donljacobs Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Thank you very much! I pulled plugs and they are fine, not a year old, irridium,boots and springs like new. I checked for disconnects none. I have not checked fuel pressure yet. Again, car starts with a touch of key, runs fine for about a minute, then rough, then smooth. It is most noticeable at idle and take off rough then it is like it catches and takes off. On the highway, the only way you notice is you see the SES blinking when misfiring. Oh, when running smooth, no SES light. The intermittent nature of this drives me crazy. When it smooths out, you don't know the engine is on! I need to mention that the fuel sending sensor is kaput. I had planned to do the pump when I pull that. Oh, fuel filter within a year. I just cleaned the TB, and EGR, prindle moves easy. There is a cable coming out of the firewall, it has a hose over it, why I don't understand, but the hose moves up and down on that cable. The cable hooks into the TB, sometimes when I wiggle that cable, it smooths out. I don't know if it is because or the engine is just smoothing out. I am puzzled why the cable would have a hose covering half of it with no seen purpose. Thanks again for your ideas! DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donljacobs Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 One more thing, no smell of fuel, but the exhaust is rancid, something I can't describe, maybe like something burnt? Hope that help, Thanks again, DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Now that you have made positive strides, see if you can have your friend check which cylinders are misfiring, specifically, I think you said you had done that. MAYBE its not the front bank anymore. You are getting an intermittant misfire, that is what the flashing is. Why did you replace the plug at the coil pack, are you sure its making contact? Both SPARK and FUEL can cause misfires, keep that in mind Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donljacobs Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Yes, OBD said even cylinders=front bank. When you would wiggle mess with the connector on front bank, it would smooth out. Pull off plug, nothing, put back wiggle, and it would smooth out. I thought that was it. This cable I described would also move while you played with the connector. Again, intermittent issue. There is something in or around the connector/bank. I peeled back another 8 inches of wiring on the harness and found a wire with a nick. I cut that out and spliced in a new wire, soldered it and covered in liquid plastic. No change, but when I bumped that cable that I mentioned before, it smoothed out. Also, if it counts, I am getting 11 mpg. I wish it would throw a new code. I check everytime I start it. Has anyone heard of a CKS being bad without throwing a code? Used to be when something was bad, it didn't work! Now????? Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 A bad crank sensor usually kills the engine, this is not likely a bad crank sensor I think you found the problem with the wiring, look over the connector closely Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 CKP sensors do not always throw a code, but like BBF said, that does not sound like your problem. There is a cable coming out of the firewall, it has a hose over it, why I don't understand, but the hose moves up and down on that cable. The cable hooks into the TB, sometimes when I wiggle that cable, it smooths out. Hmm, that sounds like the shift cable. It "should" have no effect on the idle, but since it does, it bears looking at anything it touches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donljacobs Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 New info: I took it back to original mechanic who said he would check out miss fire today, he stood me up, was not there! Anyway, Cruising on the highway it appeared to be perfect. After exiting expressway, it idled perfect......for a few minutes, then rough. Same on return trip, it idled at a couple stop lights and took off perfect, then went to rough again??????????? No new codes. Highway smooth above 2000 rpms. I still need check fuel pressure, need to borrow gage. Anymore ideas are appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 In a prior post you stated that if you jiggled the wire to the coil pack you could induce the misfire. Is that still true? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donljacobs Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 In a prior post you stated that if you jiggled the wire to the coil pack you could induce the misfire. Is that still true? No, I jiggle wire to stop misfire. I have put a new connector on as well, I have taken tape off harness about 8 inches, I found a wire with a nick and I spliced in a new wire. All wires are soldered and then plastic coated and rewrapped with tape. new code just now, 0517, high idle, but I don't think that has anything to do with it. SOS, start, smooth, with a minute, rough, wait a minute smooth.......?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Exactly, if you can jiggle the wire and have ANY impact at all, THAT is the source of your problem, figure that out Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donljacobs Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Exactly, if you can jiggle the wire and have ANY impact at all, THAT is the source of your problem, figure that out Yes, my conclusion two days ago and made me buy new connector, no difference, .........and I can't be sure it is just smoothing out on own??? When I first start car I hear click in front.......I think fan switch?.......I am not positive but when it clicks again, it goes into rough idle, maybe nothing????, Oh, high idle code probably because I sprayed carb cleaner in intake....curious runs at least well above 2000 rpm after 30 min run will idle for some time (3 traffic lights)and then went to rough.....crazy!!!! Oh, all new fan relays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Exactly, if you can jiggle the wire and have ANY impact at all, THAT is the source of your problem, figure that out Yes, my conclusion two days ago and made me buy new connector, no difference, .........and I can't be sure it is just smoothing out on own??? When I first start car I hear click in front.......I think fan switch?.......I am not positive but when it clicks again, it goes into rough idle, maybe nothing????, Oh, high idle code probably because I sprayed carb cleaner in intake....curious runs at least well above 2000 rpm after 30 min run will idle for some time (3 traffic lights)and then went to rough.....crazy!!!! Oh, all new fan relays The click you are hearing is probably the AC clutch engaging, turn the AC off, you should not hear that click if that is your click Take your serpentine belt off and feel your AC pulley to see if it wobbles or is loose or rough. it is possible that when the clutch engages its creating a problem with the idle, we have seen it. If its bad enough, the pulley will be VERY HOT, so be careful. Try cleaning the throttle body throat and plate, deposits stop the plate from closing, to clean it right will take about 20 to 30 minutes, use o2 safe carb cleaner and terrycloth rags. DO NOT spray carb cleaner in the throttle body. Why did you replace the fan relays Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donljacobs Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Replaced fan relays as part of overheat problem which turned out to be HG. AC works great, it is below 50 here so I don't think AC would start? I clean TB and EGR this week. Sprayed some cleaner in there to see idle change. Car backfires a little when rough, kind of a poof sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Go and look at the AC clutch, when it clicks on, it may bind causing roughness in the idle, it wont stop starting up till a much lower temp. We are diagnosing together here, you MUST start eliminating things The high idle COULD be related to a dirty throttle body that is why I said to clean it Have you checked the fuel pressure regulator? Check the fuel pressure and monitor it when this happens Do you smell fuel?, smell for unburned fuel at the exhaust, does it smell rich Next I may want you to lift the fuel rail and pressurize it and see if any injectors are leaking, they should NOT leak Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donljacobs Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Injectors are not leaking, no fuel smell, checked FPR, AC is not coming on, too cold, fan switch. Question, the Mechanic told me it was front bank, maybe that is wrong considerint his other performance.....could it be back bank? How can I check that? I have never known a coil pack to be intermittent, any of you? I don't have a gage to check fuel pressure, trying to borrow one. I really appreciate you sticking with me on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Injectors are not leaking, no fuel smell, checked FPR, AC is not coming on, too cold, fan switch. Question, the Mechanic told me it was front bank, maybe that is wrong considerint his other performance.....could it be back bank? How can I check that? I have never known a coil pack to be intermittent, any of you? I don't have a gage to check fuel pressure, trying to borrow one. I really appreciate you sticking with me on this! I am VERY methodical when I diagnose things, I am NOT all over the place. How do you know the injectors are not leaking?, if they were leaking into the cylinders you would not see that, have you lifted the fuel rail and looked at the injectors when the key is in the ON position (not run)?, if not you do not know if they are leaking. As far as the AC is concerned it will turn on till a LOW temp, and 50 is not low enough, that is why I asked to see if THAT was your click, I have been at this for a LONG LONG time, I would not ask if it was too cold, Ill get the EXACT temp for you later where it wont engage, I think its like 38. OMG!, FORGET the mechanics, I asked you to tell me what is going on, NOW THAT YOU REPLACED the COIL PACK, forget what happened previously, you changed the coil pack and connector, and its better but you are still getting a P300, now that you changed the coil pack, where is that P300 eminating from, maybe this is only ONE cylinder and we can focus our diagnosis on that...... THINK METHODICAL P300 can be caused by fuel, spark, vacuum leak and compression Are you loosing coolant at all, keep an eye on that Check fuel pressure, it could be a bad relay dropping out, or a bad armature in the pump.... watch pressure when it misses Have the fuel filter been changed? Did you check the INJ1 and INJ2 fuse/relays for corrosion? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 The other coil pack could be bad also. It could be eliminated by swapping in a known good unit. It could be seen by the misfire counts on a good diagnositic computer. If you have not already done so, check the plugs on the rear bank like you did on the front bank for carbon tracking, cracks and gap. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I hope I dont sound frustrated. I have described this like feeling around in the dark with a stick. My questions and suggestions have to be as good as your replies. We have to be heading in the same direction. When something changes, like you replace the coil pack and you continue to MISS, you must find out where that miss is STILL coming from We need to be on the same page at all times I think the next thing you can do is check fuel pressure to be sure its steady Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donljacobs Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Checked fuses yesterday, I will lift fuel rail, did pull plugs on front they are fine, I do not have a fuel pressure gage, or way to check back bank. When it goes rough, I am sure it is all four, because the car shakes like it is going to fall apart. I will go see if i can rent a fuel pressure gage, there is a shop I know that will run diags on their computer for $60 bucks probably check fuel pressure for same. No loss of coolant. I will report back what I find, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 dont pull the fuel rail UNLESS you smell fuel, it sounds like you are looking for an intermittant..... check fuel pressure and lets eliminate it Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donljacobs Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 I did not pull the fuel rail, I am taking to a shop tomorrow that will run computer check and check fuel pressure for $60. Based on the fact that the engine ran so well on the highway today, I thought about fuel issue. I recleaned the TB with a white cloth took a long time. Then I used Sea Foam SPRAY injector cleaner. It comes with a special spray tube that is inserted into the TB Boot and takes care of the mosquitos too. They also claim that it cleans out carbon! I followed instructions carefully and after smogging my entire neighborhood, letting it sit for 5 minutes. I then took it out for a carbon "blow out" WOT in second gear 10 times. It does appear to run perfect on the highway(anything about 2000 rpm) and the rough idle is better......but still there. So, I will still get it on a machine and check fuel pressure tomorrow. Has anyone had any experience with "fuel pump repair kits"? They have a new motor, fittings, tubes, and filters and they cost $30. I have a bad sender and thought might as well replace pump while I have it apart. Thanks again for all your help! I will report back tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 never heard of that fuel pump rebuilding kid, interesting where did you find it? It sounds like you are getting there, it will be interesting to see what the testing turns up. Where do you live that you have mosquitos, there are bad here too on Long Island, NY Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donljacobs Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I live in Michigan, When I did that Seafoam treatment, I mean it put out some white smoke that covered the neighborhood just like a mosquito fogging machine! The fuel pump rebuilding kit I found on Ebay. Search for "2000 dts fuel pump" and it is in there with the $172 fuel pumps. I have had great success shopping there for parts and Rock Auto, recently lower control arms with ball joint, $52 apiece. I am anxious to see what tests bring tomorrow. Again, after Seafoam it is running way better, but a little rough at idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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