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I am a little confused here, what are you doing removing the crossover? I was under the impression you were attempting to get to the "bolt with a hole in it".

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Im sorry about the caps, I was half asleep, my apologies.

I was initially attempting to replace the 4 gaskets that go from waterpump housing to block, after one of them was failing slightly at 18psi I was initially only doing a water pump but figured since I am going to keep the car for awhile I might as well might down and do it, as I was not crazy about added 10 hours or better being under the hood. To sum it up, I couldnt get the housing up and away as I was not about to tear the fuel injection rails off. Initially that 'surge pip' or whatever that connection is under the egr opening on the housing was a problem but I finaly got that off by pincing the the 2 tabs together. I was able to get a dremel in between the block and housing and clean it up really well, after a bunch of hassle I was also able to manipulate the housing aligned with the gaskets on and get the water pump housing reattached without having to pull it all out., but that surge pip prevented me from moving it a couple of inches as there is a bracket attached to that line (I am not sure its the surge pipe or not, its the one UNDER the egr opening on the side of the housing unit, after fussing and fighting I figure that out (I am using a chiltons, and because I never have touched this car or any other cadilac I dont have a shop manual like I do for my Yukon so I am short on descriptions and procedure(s) in the chiltons (which is useless) they keep flipping the proceedure for the 4.6L and the 4.9L together and it gets confusing, well for me it was getting confusing) so I finally got that out, but I had a couple of question in general about where I am right now, and they were:

The EGR pip says to discard after removal as its a crush fitting, is this really the case, I got it to go back in without bending the flange(s)

That surge pipe I figure out - just mine was really in there and it was a bear to pull out

I didnt use RTV to place the gaskets, I did check them all by eye - with the housing lined up and about 1 1/2" away from the block, then i have the housing attched to the bock right now NOT TORQUED down, and I cant eyeball the bottom right gasket, but it was in place and it feels like it is in place, question being did I screwup by not using RTV and do I need to pull it away - the old gaskets didnt have any gasket maker residue on them

The entie top of the engine is covered in this 'tacky' sticky flim, seems like a light glue and I was wondering if that was something someone did for a reason, if it serves a purpose and what it is

since everything I have pulled out has been corrioded, I have cleaned everything up as best as I could, how concerned do I need to be with inside of the housing where the water pump actually seats, I have brush it down and cleaned it, as with all the parts getting ready to go in.

Can I reuse the throttle body gasket as its in great shape or do I need to get another?

I am not trying to cheap out, its just parts store runs are tough when my wife has the other car so I have been getting what I need with the hope of not having to wait for parts before vontining, and that EGR pipe is definitely a dealer only item - that could shut me down till tommorrow as I am getting ready to go to the button up and start putting everything back together but was hoping to get an answer on whether I made a mistake by not using RTV on those 4 housing gaskets and do I need to pull it off again. I have not been able to get the housing unit out of the car, but have been able to get it to a 'workable' place to clean, prep, pace the gaskets, etc.

Before I go back to putting this back together again I wanted to ake sure I didnt mis a step - like the RTV on the gasket (they say to use it to hold it in place - I have the gaskets lined up very well, the bolts make sure of that, just double checking as I do not with to do this project OVER again because I made a mistake.

I am also suspect that with the amount of corrosion I have found and other reasons that the heater core is leaking, but one beast at a time.

Thanks

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Futhur up the post, a couple of people mentioned ALLTHREAD which I have no idea what this is, could someone please clue me in...

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I have to read this later, im going out, but the crossover job is a BEAR, its held in place in two places on each side by a total of 8 bolts. The dealer gets big money for this job ($800). Now that you disturbed it, you will need to replace all 4 crossover seals. This job is hard, you are going to need to remove a lot to get it out, I did this job

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

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Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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The allthread method is used to drop the carriage, I used it when I dropped and tilted mine, if you decide to do that there are things that need disconnecting before you do it to avoid damaging stuff. There is a bolt in each corner of the carriage and it is removed and a 12 inch all thread screwed in and you use a nut and washer to drop the cradle.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Allthread is like a really long bolt with no head on it...

It only has threads for a nut from one end to the other...

Since it isn't a bolt... (it has no head) and only has threads from top to bottom... it is called ALLTHREAD... :) :)

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OH Thank you for clearing that up, I thought it was something along those lines but I wasnt sure. No I am not going that far, if you read the long postings you'll see that I was able to get enough clearance to clean & prep the block and housing for the 4 gaskets, and I have it attached. I did not use RTV to seat them as it wasnt needed, was that a mistake???

Thats a really cool method of getting that, I have to mentally note that, how much back or tilt room does it buy you and how long does it take (round about estimate - just curious) ? That could be handy for lots of stuff.

Thanks Paul

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OH Thank you for clearing that up, I thought it was something along those lines but I wasnt sure. No I am not going that far, if you read the long postings you'll see that I was able to get enough clearance to clean & prep the block and housing for the 4 gaskets, and I have it attached. I did not use RTV to seat them as it wasnt needed, was that a mistake???

Thats a really cool method of getting that, I have to mentally note that, how much back or tilt room does it buy you and how long does it take (round about estimate - just curious) ? That could be handy for lots of stuff.

Thanks Paul

I have not had the pleasure of doing a carriage tilt... yet... :) :)

Now that my car is no longer under warranty... I might have to someday do that.

Body by Fisher, Logan and I think Ranger, have did it, among others.

It gives you a lot more room, but I am not sure "EXACTLY" how much.

There is some stuff that has to be disconnected.. obviously.

I do not have the list of stuff that has to be disconnected.

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OH Thank you for clearing that up, I thought it was something along those lines but I wasnt sure. No I am not going that far, if you read the long postings you'll see that I was able to get enough clearance to clean & prep the block and housing for the 4 gaskets, and I have it attached. I did not use RTV to seat them as it wasnt needed, was that a mistake???

Thats a really cool method of getting that, I have to mentally note that, how much back or tilt room does it buy you and how long does it take (round about estimate - just curious) ? That could be handy for lots of stuff.

Thanks Paul

Paul, I was able to tilt the carriage to get into the side pan to replace sensors and solenoids. Logan was the first to try the all thread method and I used his method, very cool thing to be able to do.

You will need to disconnect the steering shaft, tie rods (maybe), stabilizer links, struts (maybe, mark the three holes at top with spray paint to install back in same spot), AC lines that hang up the system but don't depressurize

This is the company I was able to get the all thread from, search all thread or threaded rod, they have all sizes

http://www1.mscdirec...v-_-home-_-home

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I never lowered the cradle. When I did the blower motor on my '97 I just used a turnbuckle in place of the drivers side torque strut and pulled the engine forward a couple of inches.

I think you can pick up threaded rod at most any hardware store.

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Well another day in and out of the engine compartment, between my daughter and my wife I didnt have a FULL day to do button the who car up like I would have liked, but oh well we are teaching my 6 yr old how to ride a bike - that is not a job you can do from the engine compartment.

Anyways just to update all you guys, first let me say THANK YOU very much for all you help!

I never did take the whole Water Pump Housing Assembly out, I managed to get enough clearance after removing everything but the fuel injection rails/line and cleaned evrything up wit the housing just inches from it's home. I set the gaskets, wiggled the housing around, got it aligned, went light to line it up and checked it out, all looked good (I'll know tomorrow when I pressure test the system again after going to the Cadillac Dealer AGAIN!). So I put the new water pump in, new thermostat, new gaskets all around, didnt go with new hoses (didnt need them) got everything buttoned up - I finally was able to chase down what those 2 items I kept mentioning in my post:

The 1st one that runs from the housing, it's the hard pipe which runs under the master cyclinder attaches by a welded bracket to the transmission right next to the where the linkange bracket is - that is the EVAC surge out pipe, now, this baffles me, when you read chiltons it tells you to disregard the EGR pipe once you disconnect it at the housing as it uses a 'crush' fitting, I dont know what a crush fitting is, but it would seem to me that the SURGE outlet pip is a crush fitting, when you push those two tabs together (the whole thing is plastic - the fitting) to pull that unit out its a plastic insert in to (cant remeber the part) then to the water pump housing, now that fitting literally fell apart and I couldnt for anything get it to stay back in, the 'clamp' is plastic tabbed, and the top 1/8 snaps off and stays in the outlet, good thing I reached in there with my finger because I pulled that out and a O gasket as well, so I will have to go to the dealer and get that fitting tommorrow as well as the EGR pipe, which (acccording to chiltons) I cant use, because its a crush fitting, and it doesnt seem to be a 'crush fitting' I think Chiltons maybe got the two of them mixed up. Because it says to discard the pipe and I dont understand why, it seems to go back in fine and there is a flange that seats it, and you tighten a bolt NEXT to it and it pushes it back in.

So if anyone can clear this up would apreciate it, but going to the dealer in the morning and hopefully I will be able to get what I need in parts, which would be that EGR PIPE (if chiltons is right - and I looked up online it's like a $60 item, why would GM say just toss it? Anyways and I need figure out how what fitting is used along with a new o ring for the Surge out Pipe.

After I get it buttoned up I want to repressure test it, see how it does, now tha I have replaced the gaskets, pump, etc, maybe the heater core isnt bad? I was getting some leaking occassionally right on the back right, since I know that top gasket was bad maybe it was just seeping from there down the block and it is not the heater core like I thought,but eveything was so coorided I wouldnt be surprised.

So after it passes a pressure test on the work I did (knock on wood, fingers crossed, etc) I will do a flush before I start it up, as there was a lot of stuff that could have made its way into the system since I cleaned everything down I couldnt completely empty that water pump housing, I used rags to clean the bottom where the water pump goes in but all the dust and stuff I will do a reverse flush as well before loaded it all up.

Any comments or suggestions as always I am all ears, keep yo guys posted and thank you everyone for your assorted help!

(Then if I am successful I will post all the parts and everything you need to do this job in one trip to the dealer. I dont know if anyone looked at some of the pictures I posted, is that water pump that color from heat? Is that normal?

Best

Paul

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Update: After driving my wife to work, my 6 yr old to school, running a bunch of errands, I was finally able to make it to the Cadillac dealer - that was not a pleasant experience, I brought parts & diagrams and I still had to explain what I needed 3 different ways, and several times, how can these people work in a dealership and be completely unqualified? My 'career' I started off selling cars, then I worked my way through EVERY department in a couple of dealerships, while I have my College Degree from OTJ (On the Job) University.

So I have been around car & trucks my whole life, seling them, fixing them, everything imaginable. Now I consult (there's more money in it, better hours and no bosses) to auto dealers and other small businesses, as well as consumers - yes I play both sides of the fence. A uneducated consumer will get completely shafted at 99.9% of the dealerships out there I dont care what their CSIis or what they say, I have never (myself included) said, ' no wait a minute, we are just charging this customer too much money!'

Some of my parts are intergalaxtic back order, but I got what I needed to finish, so I need to hustle if I want to be done, need to round up the family at 5:00!

Will post more later, hopefully everything will turn out right and wel and I will have it all down with no mistakes. It's been a while since I wrenched a car and this is the first Cadillac I have owned that I am fixing myself, I am more of 'Truck' person, as I love my Yukon (Yes! I would love a Escalade but just not in the budget right now) and this is the first one of a long line of Denalis' that I have kept past 40,000 miles, it's got 95K on it now. Having a family will do the craziest things!

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You do not need to replace the EGR tube - it is a radiused interface area that is held in place with a plate and a single bolt. If the Chilton's manual says to replace the tube, they are wrong.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I NEED a quicky answer and some help. I feel like a idiot, I am all but done and I am on the verge of making a mistake that would set me back 4 hours, I might be there anyways.

I dont know what 'crush fitings' are, I can see how they work, but heres my problem:

That piece I kept reffering to is the ECT connector, chiltons has it wrong. So I got another one $28.00

When I got it - it wasnt in a bag, I dont know if the part guy put it together (by puttingthe cush fitting into the connector) for me or if it came this way, or came in 2 peces. I know it would have to come with the crush fitting.

I might have snapped the crush fitting while installing the connector anyways as I used a 1 1/1 " socket and that might have pushed the tabs together which sepeerated the top ring and makes the seal,or I might have snapped it and made it useless, right now it's in the housing and I have looked and I cannot tell whether it has actually seperated(the top ring from the tabs piece which ned to obviously ne whole) or not, every with a mirror, I have tried to put the outlet pipe back in, everything is a tight spot and I DO NOT want to force it unless I know if:

Does the crush fitting stay in the ECT connector an then you insert the pipe ? Or are you suppose to take out the fitting and put it on the pipe and THEN insert it in the connector. I wouldnt have thought that your suppose to put it in the connector and not remove it from the ECT, but dont want to work this thing over pushing it in and crushing the fitting, which would pop the ring on the top making a seal impossible and I now have a $28.00 paperweight.

I cant understand the design of this and I would think that you would put it on the pipe, but that s me what do I know

I really would appreciate some help here - thanks in advance!

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ECT = engine coolant temperature sensor? I'm not sure what "crush fitting" you are referring to. Can you post a picture?

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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The ECT pictures are 'kinda' in order, I tried to do a 'step by step' from the way it came from The Dealer Parts department, to what happens WHEN YOU REMOVE THE PIPE from the ECT connector (as in the original remove BEFORE getting the new ECT, then how the 'CRUSH FITTING' seperates (you ppush those 2 'Tabs' together and you pull the pip back and it seperats from the ECT ftting, but I DO NOT think that I have that picture in the correct order. This why I am second guessing the proceedure on installing the pipe, or mybe I am being paranoid, but I dont want to make a stupid mistake now because it would mean I would have to pullthe ECT connector, get another one, reinstall it (About 4 hrs of work because of where it is and you cannot put a wrench to it. I was lucky enough to have a big enough socket set & driver as that ECT connector takes a 1 1/8" socket and once you get it on (after starting by handof course you can literally only go 2 turns/click at a time.

If I push those 2 tabs together to remove the fitting fom the NEW ECT connector to mount it to the pipe, I might (I have no idea I would imagine I CRUSH the fittngs taking it out to place on the pipe that connects to the ECT). After you press those 2 side Tabs together, you then pull the pip out of the ECT cnnector (it's not a easy pull out, you need to force it) when it comes out, as shown in the photos it's in 2 pieces on the pipe, the 'CRUSH FITTING' has done its job and seperated the O RING that seats OVER the flange on the top of the pipe and seperated from the rest of the fitting. As the top ring has 'seperated' from the 'fitting' as a result of pushing the 2 tabs together.

Then I showed (not in the correct order I dont think which is why I wrote notes on the paper in the photos') what happens when you remove the fitting from the pipe ( you need to push the 2 release tabs over a flange to pull it out the actual hard pipe) and how it is now broken apart. To prep the pipe for installation you take whats left of the fittng and push the tabs outward now to move it ovr the pipe and off the flange (I do no think I put in a picture of the bare pipe & how its flanged).

I did my recreation with the OLD parts obviously, I look in the ECT connct, which is a pain because you need to use a mirror and get the angle just right and check to see if I had accidently sepeated the 'CRUSH' fitting while I was putting the NEW ECT CONNECTOR on as that piece is plastic and pretty delicate, it would snap out as designed with out much force, but I believe I could get it out with out breaking it, but I do not want to take the the chance and snap the O-ring seal!

I'm am probably just tired and not thinking right which is great to have a second opinion (or 3rd, etc) and post this, truth be told i I was rushing I probably would have pushed the two tabs together on the NEW ECT connector to remove the fitting and placed it over the pipe and not thought twice about it. But I can also see how I could do what I just mentioned and snap that seal, break the and seperatethe ring from the connector and screw myself (I am quite good at doing that).

For what it's worth I tink you leave it in, heres why:

Thats the way I got the part (Gm Number: 25689629

I looked up the part number and they are only sold together, yes it is aincrediable stupiddesign, and my first reaction would have been 'oh take this out of the ECT connector and put it one the pipe and insert it (which would have snaped the seal and it would have leaked like crazy)

I look at one on EBAY and it's exact the way I recieved mine, already inserted

I dont not believe that you can buy that CRUSH fitting/connector seperately, I couldnt get response yesterday when I went to the dealr on that, and in the diagram there is O-RING that is shown (and this is misleading to a point) but thats the rubber one that is already in there behind the CRUSH CONNECTOR - not the plastic onethat seperates as a result of pushing the tabs together to remove. Nw even though Chiltons, got this part wrong with identifiying the wrong part, they ID this as the EGR pipe and tell you to disgard it as it is NOT reusable, the EGR pipe also has a flange, but it is lock with a steel 'clip' that is held on by a 10mm nut, why would that item be 'unusable' - the dealer is the one whole told it ws reusable as I asked, thinking thta I was going to have to by 2 pipes, but your suppose to reinsert theEGR PIPE (usless you bend the flange with is really easy to do).

So - here is the link to the pictures on photobucket: http://s1095.photobucket.com/albums/i478/carjockey71/

Thank You for you help!!!!

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Well I'm searching everywhere on the net, while doing this I get a call from my wife. So we chit chat about the car and she says, you seem frustrated - why ? Of course ME - TARZAN, HER- JANE I cant even get her to put GAS in the cars, never mind holding any real interest in what is going on now. SO I asked her if she was just asking to be nice or if she really wanted to know my 'problem' as it was about the car. Surprisingly she says, no really what your problems (it's not that she doesnt care or askabout my problems, it just that she doesnt really get into things about cars and usually just lends me a ear to vent - I have a great wife who is 16 weeks with our second child and I dont want to give anyone the wrong idea). SO IMGAINE THIS, I have been in and out of that engine compartment for several day, running here and ther to get parts, etc being down to one car we are sharing which is a pain in the neck.

I tell her my 'dilema' and how it's just stressing because I have a feeling that I am going to make the wrong choice and have to tear this thing apart and I am started to think that I should have just paid the $$ and had it done as my confidence is now a little 'shaken'. So I breifly explain about this fitting an dhow it works, and how I dont know if I am suppose to take it out of the ECT connector or leave it in because when I purchased it, it was already installed.

My lovely wife says, 'Paul - why don't you just call the dealership?' I could have fallen on the floor! Such a simple answer that I wasted so much time on trying to find and got a answer of 'fitix' (the free question service, not the pay one I was going there as a last resort) and the guy told me to pull it out, and I almost did. I literally had JUST read that when she called, so the short and sweet - LEAVE THE FITTING IN THE ECT and just install the tube.

Gotta try and button up tonight, will post more later with the outcome (praying its great)!

Thanks as always

Paul

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Well got everything buttoned up and so far so good. I am in 'FLUSHING' mode, with recommended solution. Had one small instance when I trid to fire up the first time, I had pull the injector rails up and unseated the first 2 injectors, so I had to take them off, reseat the seal, clean them up and it was fine.

Before I go and dump in the DEXCOOL and go for the final, I am interested to see how much MORE junk come out of the system. The first 2 flushes the system as aweful. It was all corroided and it felt like fine sand in the bottom of the drain pan. I wonder if that was the BARRS I put in the system a couple months ago when I felt the heater core was (and still think it is) going, but after I button it up I will pressure test it overnight and see if hold the 18 lbs or so. Is there a acceptable amount of loss if you leav it sitting for 8-10 hours or more - like a couple pounds? Should I test the system higher then the cap rating, like push it to 20-20 lbs?

Any inputs please add.

Will post with updates and the final thread of every part you need and how to do this without making all the msitakes I did -

ADMINSTRATOR - when I write the post on how to do this like I did should I start a NEW post or just continue nward with this one?

Thaks every again for all you help

Best

Paul

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Thanks Ranger and Mike - appreciate it, I would hae thought that 1-2 lbs would have been acceptable, since GM car's are like Harley's -they ALL leak (and it's an acceptable situaion to the mfg). How long would YOU reccomend I pressure test that system for to 'amke sure ' the system is solid? I will leav it hooked up all night in the interest of scientific community, but I forgot to do it last night, so I will tonight. I want to return that testor asit's a loaner and I got a $90 deposit on it.

Thanks Again

Paul

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15 psi overnight is fine. It SHOULD hold pressure. If not, the leak point should be evident as it will not be able to quickly evaporate from a hot engine.

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Well it held at 18 lbs (Cap specifications) fo 3 1/2 hours, actually went up 1/2 lb in the last hou, but the sun is beating right on the car and this Florida (those of us wholeave in climates like FL know our tire pressure changes up to 4 lbs in a hour of driving in the heat, so Ican see that 1/2 as expansion of the hoses - would that be the correct line of thought)?

Another dumb quetion, that pressure test whould have shown a heater core leak or is that ONLY ifI had the het on and the syst open? I didnt thnk of tis until now as the last drive in the car the AC as on (it's always on) and I dont know if that system is design t do anything like 'reroute' if your not using heater. Is there way to test the HEATER CORE of ould I have just done that in the pressure test I did or does the HEATER CORE has a switch or diversion valve setup for when your run the AC??

Thanks as always

Paul

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quick edit to above I did run the heat on the car during the 'flush' as the instuctions stated

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