Texas Jim Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 After the first of the year... if you want to... and have time... we can time the DTS again. I had the tune done, and am still getting used to it. It is quite a bit different now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Spill the beans! how is it different? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Sounds fun. Did you end up using a 2nd PCM for the tune? Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Bruce, I got a new ECM and a new TCM. I had the tune put on those. (Just in case) The original ones from the car are now in bubble wrap and in my roll a way toolbox.. The problem I have with the car now, is figuring out how to LAUNCH IT HARD. I am having a big problem with wheelspin and wheelhop. And that AIN'T GOOD. Wheelhop breaks things. Probably be taking a ROAD TRIP over the holidays, and see if it helped the fuel mileage any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Spill the beans! how is it different? Well, y'all may remember when my other one burned and I bought this one. I was a little disappointed in the way this one ran ... compared to the other one. Now it runs like it is SUPPOSED TO. I haven't timed it...but just driving along on the freeway and STAND ON IT... it just takes a VERY FEW seconds to jump from 60 to 100. He removed 75% of the torque management nanny. Raised the speed limiter to 150. Tuned it for Premium fuel only, since that is all I run in it anyway. Adjusted the timing curve from a maximum of 5 degrees stock, to a maximum of 20 degrees now. Added a little bit of line pressure to the transmission to help firm up the shifts in conjugation with removing the torque management. Along with a lot of other tweaks. He spent almost two hours adjusting it. Most of the time I was driving and he was looking at the laptop and adjusting things as I drove. One big problem I have now is wheelspin and wheelhop when trying to take off HARD. I am going to have to learn just what it takes, to get it to TAKE OFF and not do the spinning and wheelhop stuff. Took it to the local 1/8th mile dragstrip before the tune and again after the tune. I was disappointed that I couldn't run better times AFTER the tune since the car FEELS a good bit stronger now. My times for before and after the tune are identical. My best time is 10.1 I think the wheelhop is killing my times... there is just NO WAY (that I have figured out yet) to get it off the line REAL HARD without it doing that. Sometimes it is so bad, that StabiliTrac kicks in. I had Traction Control OFF.. of course. I might try it with TC on and see what it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 This wheel hop is caused by the removal of the torque management?, do you think? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 This wheel hop is caused by the removal of the torque management?, do you think? Maybe...but... the way I understand the torque management process, it is mostly to reduce driveline jerk and stress when the transmission shifts gears. That way you have more of a CADILLAC EXPERIENCE as you drive. Very soft and very smooth shifts. If you couldn't hear the engine and see the tach, it was kinda hard to tell, sometimes, when it shifted gears. Using Torque Management....when it shifts gears, the timing is retarded and power is reduced momentarily as it changes from one gear to the next. It was fairly noticeable at light throttle and very noticeable at WOT. There was a perceptible LAG, as it changed gears. That LAG is now gone. TC and StabiliTrac handles wheelspin. I think it is putting out a little more power and torque coming off the line, which is contributing to the wheelhop. On that note, there will be VERY FEW times, in real world driving, where the wheelhop will ever be a factor. You can't drive that way on the street. Both times, when at the track... I had the wheelhop problem. It was just a lot worse the second time... AFTER the tune. Next time I go, I will try one run with TC left ON and see what it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Thought I would add an update on some of the vehicles I actually raced when I was at the track. I will try to get someone to go with me next time to take video. It might be semi interesting to see the Cadillac at the track. The car SEEMS to run stronger at all speeds. It could all be in my head, but, of course, I don't think so. The last trip to the track, I did manage to beat a few pretty good sounding vehicles. First, I beat a late model Chev pickup with the 5.3L V8 and headers and custom exhaust. Took him by a good 3 lengths. It was no contest at all. Next up was a little older GMC pickup with the Vortec 350 engine, 4.10 gears, a mild cam, exhaust and headers. Beat him about 3 lengths also. Both of the pickup drivers avoided me after the race. Can't imagine why... except that their buddies that were with them, were giving them a hard time...about being beat by the gray headed old Grandpa in the big ole Cadillac. Then there was an ex police Caprice. LT1 engine and 4.10 gears. He pulled me well over a length coming off the line, and beat me at the end, but by less than a fender. My front bumper was even with the front of his front wheel when we went thru the timing lights. I was slowly gaining on him all the way down the track, after the DTS FINALLY took off. Another few lengths to run and I would have had him. There was an older model Pontiac... rear wheel drive. Sounded REAL GOOD. Do not know what he was running. Took him REAL BAD... not even sure how much I beat him by. He was that far behind. It was a fun evening but at the same time VERY FRUSTRATING.... not being able to get off the line good. THAT PART was killing me. Any and all comments and opinions welcome. Even if you think I am stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 This wheel hop is caused by the removal of the torque management?, do you think? Maybe...but... the way I understand the torque management process, it is mostly to reduce driveline jerk and stress when the transmission shifts gears. That way you have more of a CADILLAC EXPERIENCE as you drive. Ya know, that wheel hop thing has always been a problem for me . . . Darn! Need to make that meter smaller. There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Does the ABS kick in? It does not make sense to me that you would get wheel hop, doesnt the magnetic ride control kick in to dampen the movement? To get wheel hop, the strut/spring are being overpowered. In the beginning of the service manual they discuss harmonics, 4th order, etc... I never understood what they meant by that, but I would imagine, that a vibration or cycle is prevalent under very specific conditions. I need to do some reading, they relate it to shimmy and vibration Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 At a track they coat the track with a substance to assist tire traction. Failure of the tires to spin under stress can contribute to wheel hop. Torque management is intended to keep the engine torque from destroying the transmission. If you study the dyno curves through the wheels I always felt that the Northstar setup got full power to the ground out at speed and a much muted power at lower speeds. That said, the reason for the torque management is to extend the transmission life. For front wheel drive cars due to the weight shift I continue to argue that the best acceleration is going to be with just a 'chirp' of wheel spin and don't go full throttle until the Cadillac is moving along. That should also eliminate wheel hop. The Deville is not setup to be an ideal drag strip car, but I am glad you are having fun with it. That should last you until an STS-V or CTS-V comes into view as the next car. I would guess an STS-V will be closer in size, (AND have worse depreciation), but it does not have the magnetic suspension, since they could not get that tuned to give as good a performance at the time. The CTS-V does have the magnetic suspension, and I know that is mandatory for Texas Jim now. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Does the ABS kick in? STABILITRAC kicked in a couple of times... as it was spinning and the front end started going to the right.... not staying on a straight line. It does not make sense to me that you would get wheel hop, doesnt the magnetic ride control kick in to dampen the movement? It is probably doing the best it can. To get wheel hop, the strut/spring are being overpowered. EXACTLY... that is what is happening now. The car was never designed for what I am doing. One more trip to the track... and one trip to see Bruce, (if he is willing) after the first of the year, and I am thru abusing it. I just WANT TO KNOW what it is capable of. In the beginning of the service manual they discuss harmonics, 4th order, etc... I never understood what they meant by that, but I would imagine, that a vibration or cycle is prevalent under very specific conditions. I need to do some reading, they relate it to shimmy and vibration When the guy had his computer hooked up to it, when it would wheelhop, the KNOCK SENSORS were picking it up as DETONATION and yanking the timing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 At a track they coat the track with a substance to assist tire traction. Failure of the tires to spin under stress can contribute to wheel hop. Torque management is intended to keep the engine torque from destroying the transmission. If you study the dyno curves through the wheels I always felt that the Northstar setup got full power to the ground out at speed and a much muted power at lower speeds. That said, the reason for the torque management is to extend the transmission life. For front wheel drive cars due to the weight shift I continue to argue that the best acceleration is going to be with just a 'chirp' of wheel spin and don't go full throttle until the Cadillac is moving along. That should also eliminate wheel hop. The Deville is not setup to be an ideal drag strip car, but I am glad you are having fun with it. That should last you until an STS-V or CTS-V comes into view as the next car. I would guess an STS-V will be closer in size, (AND have worse depreciation), but it does not have the magnetic suspension, since they could not get that tuned to give as good a performance at the time. The CTS-V does have the magnetic suspension, and I know that is mandatory for Texas Jim now. Next time out, I am going to try different tire pressures to see if that will help. It is running real consistent 10.2's. at 70 -71 mph. I ran one 10.1 at 74 If I could get ONE GOOD launch.. I think it would break into the high 9's. Then I would be happy. I am not trying to make a drag car out of it... I just want to KNOW what it can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 This wheel hop is caused by the removal of the torque management?, do you think? Maybe...but... the way I understand the torque management process, it is mostly to reduce driveline jerk and stress when the transmission shifts gears. That way you have more of a CADILLAC EXPERIENCE as you drive. Ya know, that wheel hop thing has always been a problem for me . . . Darn! Need to make that meter smaller. I don't understand. Whats with the BS meter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 This wheel hop is caused by the removal of the torque management?, do you think? Maybe...but... the way I understand the torque management process, it is mostly to reduce driveline jerk and stress when the transmission shifts gears. That way you have more of a CADILLAC EXPERIENCE as you drive. Ya know, that wheel hop thing has always been a problem for me . . . Darn! Need to make that meter smaller. I don't understand. Whats with the BS meter? Sorry for having been obtuse. Of course, wheel hop is completely foreign to me! I meant to bring the B.S. meter down upon myself, not on anyone else. MY BAD! Apologies, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Sorry for having been obtuse. Of course, wheel hop is completely foreign to me! I meant to bring the B.S. meter down upon myself, not on anyone else. MY BAD! Apologies, Warren OK.. now I understand. Sometimes I am a little dense. Go get some wheelhop.... EVERYBODY needs some.... NOT. My car has always had a LITTLE BIT... if you really stand on it from a dead stop on concrete or real course asphalt. But it is 100 times worse now. Reckon it is making a little bit more power now. Based on spinning and wheelhop before and after the tune. Oh well, I don't normally drive like that anyway. I quit most of THAT about 30 years ago. Just trying to see what it can do. Once I know, I can stop all of this foolishness and be content with KNOWING what it is capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Once I know, I can stop all of this foolishness and be content with KNOWING what it is capable of. I can appreciate that sentiment. It's only necessary to KNOW what you have in reserve. You needn't use it at every turn. :D Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 I can appreciate that sentiment. It's only necessary to KNOW what you have in reserve. You needn't use it at every turn. Regards, Warren Exactly. As long as "I" know what I have.. I am content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Exactly. As long as "I" know what I have.. I am content. There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Exactly. As long as "I" know what I have.. I am content. I am actually surprised you don't get wheel hop the way you drive you nut! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Exactly. As long as "I" know what I have.. I am content. I am actually surprised you don't get wheel hop the way you drive you nut! Aw, c'mon . . . that only happened once! [bUT . . . you have 7 months until it happens again] Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Warren, Are you gonna give him a GOOD RIDE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Warren, Are you gonna give him a GOOD RIDE? Warren passed me on the SHOULDER my mouth dropped, Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Warren, Are you gonna give him a GOOD RIDE? Warren passed me on the SHOULDER my mouth dropped, Last July Mike and I shared a birthday dinner. This July we'll likely do it again. That evening I put Mike behind the wheel of my ride and told him to have at it. He chickened (but in a gentlemanly manner). I just thought it necessary-like to demo what he'd missed. Cluck! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted December 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 Warren passed me on the SHOULDER my mouth dropped, Well... whats wrong with that? if it was a good shoulder... why not? I hate being behind some ole slow pokey Cadillac Deville driver that thinks he owns the road and won't MOVE OVER like he should. I hope you know... I am kidding you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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