BodybyFisher Posted December 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 hey guys this is my first post!!! just wanted to say thanks for all the info in this great thread!!!! cheers marc Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilton_dalton Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 http://cadillacbushings.com/ $99.00 for a complete set for one side $149.00 for a complete set for both sides Plus S/H Or just send us your old knuckles we will press them in and out for you and send them back ready to install 1-270-746-9850 ask for Mike All of a sudden we have all of these options. I am not sure if I like this type of bushing, there is a reason that the ball is in the top of the knuckle. I am going to buy the $249 solution above and install them this winter and will report back my results. I really want to dispose of my Deville and want it perfect when I sell it. Thanks for this solution, Mike You were wise not to buy from cadillac bushings. Their product is not a press in bushing. It just slides in snugly as does the center tube. It is very likely to cause corrosion of the bore in the knuckle since it will allow moisture and grit to enter. The urethane rubber will turn either in the bore or on the tube or both. Either way, if the bore gets corroded or worn, you can't go to another replacement bushing because it won't stay in place. They are Okay if you want to get rid of the car but not if you want to keep it or have any ethics. The fellow who runs this outfit is an auto mechanic. The $249 solution from Last Chance is a turned down bushing from another car, probably a Mercedes, with brass washers to make up for the difference in length compared to the Caddie bushing. I suspect that turning it down to fit the caddy weakens the outer shell. I would have to buy a Mercedes bushing and turn it down to the split in the ball seat to know for sure, but I suspect that the lower ball joint that they sell will crack in time. The upper bushing is just a butyl rubber bushing that has no longitudinal strength. It should be good for lateral loads since this bushing does not take the weight of the car. The washers that they supply as spacers are silicon bronze which will cause accelerated corrosion of both the control arms and the through bolts where there is contact (see this web site.http://corrosion.ksc.nasa.gov/galcorr.htm) It would be better to use carbon steel washers with some paint or rust proof material applied. The fellow who runs this outfit is also an auto mechanic. Tom Walton Professional Engineer President of Walton Manufacturing (www.waltonmfg.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Ok let me give you guys an update. As you know I contacted MOOG. I love MOOG. I was informed not too long ago that the replacement parts would be manufactured and available from MOOG in the first quarter of 2009. I emailed my contact and it was returned non-deliverable. I called MOOG and asked for my contact and found out that the day AFTER he emailed me about the rear knuckle bushing status, he retired! I thought that was very very good of him to call me the day BEFORE he retired to inform me of the status. His greeting referred me to the person that would be responsible for his work. I called him and asked him about the status of the parts for the rear knuckle... We spoke for a bit, I forwarded my emaill string that I had with his predicessor and he emailed me two days later to tell me that, YES, the parts for our rear knuckle would be available the SECOND QUARTER of 2009. I for one will WAIT for MOOGS solution to this problem, as its what the doctor ordered, not some RUBE GOLDBERG solution. They understood the upper joint was an AXIAL BALL JOINT NOT a BUSHING and they were going to have a replacement part developed. MOOG will HAVE replacement parts for our rear knuckles the second quarter of 2009. About April I will call my contact and see if they are on schedule... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Any news on this part? I need one for my '97 STS. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Any news on this part? I need one for my '97 STS. Ill send an email tomorrow and see what is going on, he never responded to my last inquiry, Ill let you know what I found out, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Any news on this part? I need one for my '97 STS. Ill send an email tomorrow and see what is going on, he never responded to my last inquiry, Ill let you know what I found out, Mike Thanks! I sure hope it is available soon - I don't want to spend $500 for a new knuckle. I was amazed at the slop in the joint - about 1/8" of movement when the tire was rocked. That is enough to make the car handle pretty squirrley. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 OK , I sent an email, lets see what happens Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I want a MOOG solution as well - I did purchase the Last shot auto solution, but will gladly swap out for MOOG. I have found times that MOOG is better than OEM. (Or at least that's how it seems from a "seat of the pants" perspective. Resistance is futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I want a MOOG solution as well - I did purchase the Last shot auto solution, but will gladly swap out for MOOG. I have found times that MOOG is better than OEM. (Or at least that's how it seems from a "seat of the pants" perspective. I agree 100%, I have been a MOOG fan since I was a kid (and that is a LONGGG time ) Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 I looked at the Last Chance Auto Parts website and it appears only the lower bushing is the cross axial ball joint. The upper is a molded rubber bushing. He only sells the parts per side, both sides, or both uppers. I only need one upper bushing to fix the issue on my car. Hopefully Moog releases a bushing set soon - although none of the local parts houses know anything about it yet so I'm guessing it's not available yet. I read in the shop manual that the rear toe link outer bolt (which must be removed in order to R&R the knuckle) must be replaced as it is a one time use bolt. I can't wait to see the price for that at the GM parts counter.... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Kevin here is a photo with my knuckle removed, you can see the rear toe link, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I inquired about replacement bushings from Federal Mogul (Moog) and received an email stating the bushings were still in development and should be available by the 4th quarter of this year. I think I'm going to order the bushings from Last Shot Auto Parts and repair the driver's side of my car. By the time the passenger side wears out, the Moog parts should be available. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 Kevin, I had not received a return email from my contact.... They are missing the boat if they delay that long Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I bought the bushings for the driver's side from Last Shot. I could not wait any longer to repair it. The other side is still tight so if/when it goes, I can buy Moog parts if they're available. One thing that concerns me is the shop manual states that the outer toe link bolt (the one that attaches the toe link to the knuckle) is not to be reused. My local dealer says it is no longer available so I guess I have no choice but to reuse it. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I bought the bushings for the driver's side from Last Shot. I could not wait any longer to repair it. The other side is still tight so if/when it goes, I can buy Moog parts if they're available. One thing that concerns me is the shop manual states that the outer toe link bolt (the one that attaches the toe link to the knuckle) is not to be reused. My local dealer says it is no longer available so I guess I have no choice but to reuse it. I reused mine, but I can see if that bolt ever snapped, the rear wheel could cock, maybe it makes sense to find a new one Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I reused mine, but I can see if that bolt ever snapped, the rear wheel could cock, maybe it makes sense to find a new one It's no longer available from GM. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I reused mine, but I can see if that bolt ever snapped, the rear wheel could cock, maybe it makes sense to find a new one It's no longer available from GM. Yes, I saw you mentioned that, I have had good luck with this firm, maybe we can find it in the proper hardness http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I am going to reuse my old bolt and apply blue Locktite to the threads. I called one of the dealers in my area and they told me they never replace the bolts when R&Ring the knuckles. So much for following the service procedures... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I am going to reuse my old bolt and apply blue Locktite to the threads. I called one of the dealers in my area and they told me they never replace the bolts when R&Ring the knuckles. So much for following the service procedures... Its shocking when they admit stuff like that. But maybe you have it nailed, maybe its the Locktite coating that they are concerned with. Ill be sure to coat mine when I replace the bushings, I think the coating was RED, take a look and see how my memory was.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I am going to reuse my old bolt and apply blue Locktite to the threads. I called one of the dealers in my area and they told me they never replace the bolts when R&Ring the knuckles. So much for following the service procedures... Its shocking when they admit stuff like that. But maybe you have it nailed, maybe its the Locktite coating that they are concerned with. Ill be sure to coat mine when I replace the bushings, I think the coating was RED, take a look and see how my memory was.. I think the coating was blue from your pictures. If replacing the bolt was really required, GM would not have discontinued the bolt. The fact that the knuckle assemblies are still available but the bolt is not tells the whole story - especially considering the dealer's comments. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I am going to reuse my old bolt and apply blue Locktite to the threads. I called one of the dealers in my area and they told me they never replace the bolts when R&Ring the knuckles. So much for following the service procedures... Its shocking when they admit stuff like that. But maybe you have it nailed, maybe its the Locktite coating that they are concerned with. Ill be sure to coat mine when I replace the bushings, I think the coating was RED, take a look and see how my memory was.. I think the coating was blue from your pictures. If replacing the bolt was really required, GM would not have discontinued the bolt. The fact that the knuckle assemblies are still available but the bolt is not tells the whole story - especially considering the dealer's comments. seems that my memory is defective Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgaouette Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 What does the head of the bolt look like. Usually you can tell what the bolt is by that identifier. GM used to put the fastner head pictures in the front of there service manuals so you could reference them if replacement was required. That combined with the correct lock tight should be adaquate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Apparently MOOG does make Axle Pivot Bushings - just not for our cars. Is this a conspiracy against Cadillac drivers? Moog Bushings at Advance Auto Parts Resistance is futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 According to the emails I received from Moog, it will be 4th quarter of this year before they release bushings for the Cadillacs. If they do, that's fine, but if they don't, and my other side goes bad, I'll install another set of Last Shot Auto Parts bushings. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 According to the emails I received from Moog, it will be 4th quarter of this year before they release bushings for the Cadillacs. If they do, that's fine, but if they don't, and my other side goes bad, I'll install another set of Last Shot Auto Parts bushings. I am going to call my contact to confirm this on Monday, at least we will have two sources, I cant believe that my contact has been non responsive, this is not what I expected from Moog Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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