msfixit Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 We went to get our 1996 Oldsmobile Aurora with the Northstar V-8 4.0 liter engine and failed testing with three codes set: P0101 - Mass or Volume Circuit Range/Performance Problem; P0717 Input/Turbine Speed Sensor Circuit No Signal; P1406 Linear EGR Pintle Position Error. With respect to the P1406 code, we had a problem with the EGR valve once where the car actually died on us while we were in traffic. We found out what code was setting, removed the EGR valve and cleaned it using the instrutions on the old board and that did the trick. So why do you think the code is setting again even though the car runs beautifully? Should we just replace the EGR? With respect to the MAF code - we also replaced that part some time ago because the code was setting and now the code is setting again. I guess I am wondering if the two might be related and maybe one is causing the other . . . can anyone give advice as to whether to just replace both parts or what??? As far as the Turbine code, unfortunately I know that P0717 is bad news - not because the sensor will be expensive but because it is so deep in the transmission . . . I have read the post in the archives about how to replace it - we previously time-serted the engine successfully with beautiful results so I know that replacing the sensor aint gonna be pretty but we have no choice as we cannot pass the test without it, so we plan to tackle it. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone can give us any more advice on this one other than what was in the archive post - just wish us good luck! By the way, can anyone advise on the purchase of a good OBDII testing tool that isn't astronomical and will test multiple makes? Thanks for any advice you guys can provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazglenn3 Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Yeah...that P0717 code sucks big time. That is what caused me to sell my 1996 STS. Charles Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhinchley Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Good Scanner: http://www.toolsource.com/ost/product.asp?...nextagACTCP9175 Carbon build up: "My Buick lost the pintle zero position calibration. To relearn it, I disconnected the EGR circuit at the valve. I cleared the trouble codes and immediately turned the key off before the code could reset. I reconnected the valve electrical plug and turned the key back on and the zero position was relearned automaticallyl. The zero position should be about 1 volt." I'd clean it and make sure there is no obstruction in the hose. Replace if you get it again. BUT: There is another possibility....there may be nothing wrong! The problem is the programming in the pcm.....I know there is a reflash of the pcm for some cars to correct a false P1406 code....not sure if it applies to yours Before changing the MAF sensor, I would maybe try some electrical cleaner on the terminals of the plug. Have heard of them just getting dirty and throwing codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msfixit Posted March 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Good Scanner: http://www.toolsource.com/ost/product.asp?...nextagACTCP9175 Carbon build up: "My Buick lost the pintle zero position calibration. To relearn it, I disconnected the EGR circuit at the valve. I cleared the trouble codes and immediately turned the key off before the code could reset. I reconnected the valve electrical plug and turned the key back on and the zero position was relearned automaticallyl. The zero position should be about 1 volt." I'd clean it and make sure there is no obstruction in the hose. Replace if you get it again. BUT: There is another possibility....there may be nothing wrong! The problem is the programming in the pcm.....I know there is a reflash of the pcm for some cars to correct a false P1406 code....not sure if it applies to yours Before changing the MAF sensor, I would maybe try some electrical cleaner on the terminals of the plug. Have heard of them just getting dirty and throwing codes. Thanks for the info - I will check out the scan tool and I will relay your thoughts to my husband - I had begun to despair that anyone would answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 we previously time-serted the engine successfully with beautiful results. Do you still have the Timesert Kit? If so, would you be interested in selling it? - I just purchased a '97 STS and I will probably need to Timesert it. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I can only share my experience. seems sometimes a code is set for an emissions sensor, but the source of the trouble can be something else. I was once getting the code for my MAF, and a local mechanic wanted to replace it. I declined - it wasn't happening alot. the day after I got the car back, my fuel pump failed. I later learned that the two are related. my MAF was fine. I know the dealer would have detected this. why a good mechanic familiar with the N* is important. My car also ran fine 99.9%, just when I was climbing a hill, the MAF error will display. As I thought about this later, it was probably because the engine was starving for fuel. all that's needed is a single failure, and that code will trigger & stay on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 With regard to the P1406 code (EGR Valve Pintle Position Circuit), the EGR valve is sticking. You need to pull the EGR and clean the H out of it. I used all different types of wire brushes bending them to fit, especially 22 caliber rifle cleaning brushes. You must get to the pintle seat. Use a torx to push in, hold and turn the pintle against the wire brush and clean it through the hole. You can soak it but be VERY careful not to allow the solvent to get into the electrical circuits and make sure you use an O2 safe solvent like GM upper intake/engine cleaner. Tap on it with a hammer (the frame that bolts to the engine not the coil). Do not breath the EGR dust there is a warning in the manual about the dust! I posted a photo below of my EGR after cleaning, she's a nice and clean! When its clean it will not stick at all in the extreme ranges or within the range of pintle travel it will be smooth. When you pull it out you will notice that it sticks/binds. Buy a new EGR gasket and have it on hand the old gaskets are usually destroyed when you pull the EGR, dealer gets $6 for it With regard to P0101 - Mass or Volume Circuit Range/Performance Problem, I just read in this thread an interesting statement by winterset regarding the MAF and Fuel Pump and engine starving for gas. If your EGR is pindle is sticking open your A/F ratio will be lean if I am not mistaken and a ghost code might be set. Don't assume that the MAF is bad as winterset noted. Fix the EGR. Many will say that I am a fanatic (I am from Philly originally), but it took me about an hour to clean my EGR, work on it and make sure its free at the extremes and through its range. Get rid of the EGR code before looking elsewhere. Regarding OBD2 testing, if you have a laptop, I only see one solution (other than spending a fortune for a TECH2), check this out: http://www.autotap.com I am buying this package very soon with the enhanced GM parameters, I am looking at a Sony Vaio first. Real time data in the passenger seat, plus it tests ALL OBD2 vehicles (Ford, GM and Chrysler) Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 See this thread regarding P0717. A detailed procedure was posted in our Caddyinto "How To" section that I copied to my hard drive, I recently posted it to another thread, here it is: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...ut+speed+sensor Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msfixit Posted March 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 With regard to the P1406 code (EGR Valve Pintle Position Circuit), the EGR valve is sticking. You need to pull the EGR and clean the H out of it. I used all different types of wire brushes bending them to fit, especially 22 caliber rifle cleaning brushes. You must get to the pintle seat. Use a torx to push in, hold and turn the pintle against the wire brush and clean it through the hole. You can soak it but be VERY careful not to allow the solvent to get into the electrical circuits and make sure you use an O2 safe solvent like GM upper intake/engine cleaner. Tap on it with a hammer (the frame that bolts to the engine not the coil). Do not breath the EGR dust there is a warning in the manual about the dust! I posted a photo below of my EGR after cleaning, she's a nice and clean! When its clean it will not stick at all in the extreme ranges or within the range of pintle travel it will be smooth. When you pull it out you will notice that it sticks/binds. Buy a new EGR gasket and have it on hand the old gaskets are usually destroyed when you pull the EGR, dealer gets $6 for it With regard to P0101 - Mass or Volume Circuit Range/Performance Problem, I just read in this thread an interesting statement by winterset regarding the MAF and Fuel Pump and engine starving for gas. If your EGR is pindle is sticking open your A/F ratio will be lean if I am not mistaken and a ghost code might be set. Don't assume that the MAF is bad as winterset noted. Fix the EGR. Many will say that I am a fanatic (I am from Philly originally), but it took me about an hour to clean my EGR, work on it and make sure its free at the extremes and through its range. Get rid of the EGR code before looking elsewhere. Regarding OBD2 testing, if you have a laptop, I only see one solution (other than spending a fortune for a TECH2), check this out: http://www.autotap.com I am buying this package very soon with the enhanced GM parameters, I am looking at a Sony Vaio first. Real time data in the passenger seat, plus it tests ALL OBD2 vehicles (Ford, GM and Chrysler) With regard to the P1406 code (EGR Valve Pintle Position Circuit), the EGR valve is sticking. You need to pull the EGR and clean the H out of it. I used all different types of wire brushes bending them to fit, especially 22 caliber rifle cleaning brushes. You must get to the pintle seat. Use a torx to push in, hold and turn the pintle against the wire brush and clean it through the hole. You can soak it but be VERY careful not to allow the solvent to get into the electrical circuits and make sure you use an O2 safe solvent like GM upper intake/engine cleaner. Tap on it with a hammer (the frame that bolts to the engine not the coil). Do not breath the EGR dust there is a warning in the manual about the dust! I posted a photo below of my EGR after cleaning, she's a nice and clean! When its clean it will not stick at all in the extreme ranges or within the range of pintle travel it will be smooth. When you pull it out you will notice that it sticks/binds. Buy a new EGR gasket and have it on hand the old gaskets are usually destroyed when you pull the EGR, dealer gets $6 for it With regard to P0101 - Mass or Volume Circuit Range/Performance Problem, I just read in this thread an interesting statement by winterset regarding the MAF and Fuel Pump and engine starving for gas. If your EGR is pindle is sticking open your A/F ratio will be lean if I am not mistaken and a ghost code might be set. Don't assume that the MAF is bad as winterset noted. Fix the EGR. Many will say that I am a fanatic (I am from Philly originally), but it took me about an hour to clean my EGR, work on it and make sure its free at the extremes and through its range. Get rid of the EGR code before looking elsewhere. Regarding OBD2 testing, if you have a laptop, I only see one solution (other than spending a fortune for a TECH2), check this out: http://www.autotap.com I am buying this package very soon with the enhanced GM parameters, I am looking at a Sony Vaio first. Real time data in the passenger seat, plus it tests ALL OBD2 vehicles (Ford, GM and Chrysler) Thanks for all the information - I will relay all this to my husband! We are looking at Auto Tap also - it looks like a pretty comprehensive program and yet the price is much more reasonable than some of the others I have seen. Thanks Again - we will post our results after we have worked on the EGR valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Thanks for all the information - I will relay all this to my husband! We are looking at Auto Tap also - it looks like a pretty comprehensive program and yet the price is much more reasonable than some of the others I have seen. Thanks Again - we will post our results after we have worked on the EGR valve. Look at http://obddiagnostics.com/index.html also. I have been using this interface box for more than 5 years and I am satisfied with the whole operation. You can download the free Windows software and run it it "Simulate" mode to get a feel for operation and displays. Two things to know about this one; it is limited to "P" codes, and your computer requires a DB9 serial connector (or a USB to DB9 adapter). Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msfixit Posted March 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 we previously time-serted the engine successfully with beautiful results. Do you still have the Timesert Kit? If so, would you be interested in selling it? - I just purchased a '97 STS and I will probably need to Timesert it. No Kevin, I am sorry but we don't have it anymore, we sold it shortly after we finished the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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