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Battery going dead 2.5 amp draw 97 Eldorado w/all off


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So I need to fix this problem with the 97 Eldorado the battery keeps going dead it starts and runs but overnight it dies, hook an amp meter between the ground wire and the neg terminal and see 2.5 amps with the key off all lights everything that I can find radio ect.

If you have any ideas where to start or if this is something you've had fix please help.

With the key off I know things like a radio clock should have a draw but what is normal .025 amps? So at least I know when I am there. I am guessing the starter or alternator, 2.5 amps is not enough to trip a fuse just drain the battery.

It started showing itself with the AC fan not working correctly so I removed the ACM from under the glove box but the draw is still there. I unpluged the AC FAN but that diddn't do it, do I start pulling fuses?

Julio

Any help would be apreicated greatly

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You need to wait for the PZM to "go to sleep". That usually takes 20 minutes so have the door open and the trunk open. Once the PZM goes to sleep, the parasitic draw should be 30mA (.03 A) or less. If not, pull one fuse at a time and view the ammeter until you find the one that brings the amp draw below 30 mA. That will be the circuit that is running the battery down.

Does your car have trunk mounted CD changer? I have seen where the magazine becomes partially ejected and the player keeps attempting to initialize the discs, preventing the PZM from entering sleep mode and that will run the battery down.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I would pull fuses, one at the time, and see what happens to the current draw. If it goes down when you pull a particular fuse, you know that the circuit controlled by that fuse draws current (and also by how much). There are fuses both under the hood and in the trunk -- check your user's manual for locations and explanations. There should be a fuse-pulling tool in your glove compartment (under a small lid on the inside of the glove compartment door).

These cars have retained accessory power for 10 minutes, after which almost everything goes off. I am not sure if that is different from the PZM "sleep".

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There are several timed power sources in the 1997 Cadillac, but the one you are almost certainly going to find your problem in is the Inadvertent Power, which as KHE says times out at about ten minutes, but comes back on when you unlock the car with the fob or the key, open a door, etc.

The Inadvertent Power fuse is the INDVERT FUSE (50 Amps) in the LH Maxifuse block. It powers the blower motor and the inadvertent power, which is turned off and on by the PZM through a relay. The relay powers the interior lights (including glove box, sun visors, trunk, and courtesy lights) and the cigar lighters. The interior lamps and the cigar lighters are on separate 10 Amp (interior lights) and 20 Amp (cigar lighter) fuses.

The Retained Accessory Power is also on a timer, but it is supposed to turn off when you open the car door. You can check that function by seeing if the radio goes off when you turn off the key, then open the door. If it doesn't, then you might have a sticking Controlled Power Relay or Controlled Power Back-Up Relay. It's on the BODY 3 FUSE (50 Amps) in the LH Maxifuse block.

There is a third timed power, to the front electric windows and sunroof. It's on the Windows Circuit Breaker, which is in the LH Maxifuse block, so you should be able to pull the breaker. There is an Accessory Time Delay Relay taped into the wiring harness under the rocker panel of the driver's door near the front, but I wouldn't mess with that.

If you don't get it with the Inadvertent Power fuse and the Retained Accessory Power fuse, pull the Maxifuses one at a time. That's a small number of fuses, and finding which one will narrow the list of smaller fuses to check.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Hey Thanks so much for the help I really apreciate the help. I can see no lights on at all I have nothing plugged into the cigar ltr i just started haveing issues over the last few weeks or month or two first the fobs stopped working I usually have to replace one by now the last time I did was 3 years or so ago I am on my 3rd one but what was odd was 1 and 2 went out so I thought it might be more than just the fob. Then the blower motor problem where it will not even go manual hi mode. It will come on but once it goes out it is a long time before it comes back on.

So I was going to connect the grnd and measure from the 2 positive connections to the battery 2 c if it is one or the other, I assume I would find the alternator or the atarter to be bad and drawing since they have home runs to the battery but guess its not gonna b that simple.

I had no idea about the PZM and the devert so thanks for the help I will post my solution I hope what ever it is it makes my fob and AC fix I do have the CD changer in the trunk it does work I'll look into that to. Thanks a million!!

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  • 4 weeks later...

finally i got to look at it today I hooked up my amp meter and the inadvertent relay starts clicking, I am reading 4.8 amps today, I unplug it no change so I am like what the F I pull allot of fuses nothing knocks it down I unplug body 1 60 amp it cuts it to 1/7 amps I unplug body 2 nothing unplug body 3 I am at 20 milli amps.

I plug back in the indvrt relay nothin no clicking I plug in body 3 fuse it clicks and clcks and clicks I am getting close? Right now I have everything pluged in and waiting for 20 minutes got the door open and trunk open and hood up lets see if it goes away in 20 that would be about 1:30 est on the 2/10/13

Julio

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I'd say you're getting close. Pulling the body 1 fuse cuts it to 1/7 amps do you mean .142 A or 142 mA?

You need to study a wiring diagram to see what is on the body 3 fuse circuit and then begin disconnecting components until you find the one that eliminates the parasitic draw.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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KHE missed the period key hit the slash it is 1.7 amps; the battery is dead I recharged it after those tests, I hear the AC heater fan coming on don't know why that should be happening with the key off the only reason I can think of is because I think I have a bad ACU..

here is what happens when I open and close the trunk

Action Time Amps

Open trunk 3:37 3.05

3:40 "

Close trunk 3:42 2.25

3:43 .6

3:50 .4 amp

3:51 2.3 amp

3:54 .27

3:57 2.26

3:58 .5

3:59 .25

4:06 .06

4:35 .06

*********************************************************************************************

earlier i did this with the door open and close

hook up battery 3:20 .25

open the door 3:21 2.25

close the door 3:22 2.25

3:24 .5

3:25 .25

3:28 .07

3:36 .07

##############################################################

So the question is am I good with the open and close the door and trunk tests,

are these times mormal? Is it the ac fan coming on that is where I need to look next ?

I know I am all over the place but need to rule something out.

I am going to unplug the fan next once the battery is charged and see if I can start it tomorrow

@@@

The other issues is the jump @ 3:51 on the runk timing reading to 2.5 amps what would cause this I run

this test several time and I would get that bounce I think it was the fan motor tuning on for no reason.

Thanks for hanigning in there with me this is diffently the most d=tedieous problem to fix but I am determined to fix this, my AC is not working correctly the blower will come on then once it goes out it is out until I start it again, also if I take it out of auto and set the control to manual hi fan for heat or ac the fan doesnt come on at all defog floor blend I heare the doors move in the dash but no fan.. the trouble shooting chart from all data has me convinced it is the ACU behind the glove box, and my remote key fob stopped working too batteries are good and both 1 and 2 stopped at the same time. up until the key fobs stopped working everything on the car worked great, so agan thanks for the help let me know if I'm barking up the wrong tree on this PZM cutoff, to me .06 or 60 milli amps seems hi with body1 and body3 fuses pulled I get .02 or 20 milli amps. yes I spent pretty much all of yesterday collecting data on this problem I hope I can post the resolution have a great day!

Julio

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You need to leave the door and the trunk open until the system goes to sleep. Then read the amp draw.

When you say "A/C fan" do you mean "blower motor"? If so, it is possible you have the afterblow feature enabled which will run the blower to dry out the evaporator core to prevent mildew from growing and stinking up the car.

I doubt the ACm is the problem but if you unplug it and run the amp draw, does the current drop below 30 mA?

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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The blower motor keeps coming on yes I don't see that feature in All Data (AD) but there is rss circuit not sure what that is, I first noticed the problem with the windows fogging, then I could not get the defog to come on thats when I rung the ACM diag and the flow was if you cannot put it un manual high and it came on and went off then it was the ACM. So on the Chart 1 no blower op/inproper blwr speed first leg is I got to where it had me check for 4 volts then check ckt 754 wich is the line from the ACM to the motor its the signal lead connector b the result there is fail ACM... now leg two resolves to check for improper temp control, but with it on full blast why would that matter if the fan doesn't come on?

So last night I unplugged the fan and the antenna because when I unpluged the antenna fuse I got goot drain .01. So it sat over night with the fan unplugged and the antenna, When I got home from work it started and it started in the morning, that was a first in a long time... so tonight I unplugged the fan but plugged in the antenna fuse see if I have a battery tomorrow AM and after work.

Do you think that de humidifyer feature could be running the fan beacues monday morning when I got up after all that reading *smurf* the fan was making noise and the car would not start, So I charged it again with the fan unpluged along with the antenna i had unplugged from sunday. And Tuesday today it held a charge so the antenna is plugged back in C wha happa

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If the blower motor is running continuously, that would drain the battery but the afterblow feature is only supposed to run the fan for a period of time and then turn off.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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  • 2 weeks later...

A draw of 0.050 Amps after leaving the car alone about ten minutes is considered normal. If you are reading 0.070 Amps, then everything is probably OK and you are done. If the battery dies over night with that kind of drain, then something is "waking up" the PZM with the car unattended.

I suggest that you fix whatever is wrong with the fob, which "talks" to the RFA. If something is wrong with the RFA or you are accidentally actuating your fob during the night while it is close enough to the car to affect it, this could cause the PZM to "wake up" whenever this happens.

If you re-synchronize the fob and everything is OK, your battery drain is 0.050 Amps or so after leaving the car alone for about ten minutes, and your battery still goes dead overnight, I would take out the battery, clean the battery cables and terminals, have the battery checked out and charged, and try again when you know that the battery is solid.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

I sure would like for Julio to fill us in on the results. Unless, of course, he surrendered and in that case I understand and extend the proverbial, rest in peace. For my 96 Deville, the AC has become screwy, batteries being drained. I clock 1.2-2.5A as the blower motor cycles on and off.

Julio, if you are on the other side could you send us a sign?

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I think that he showed 0.070 Amps after about 5 minutes, when the PZM and the "inadvertent" power was still on. After those go off, it should be at or below the 0.050 Amps that is the normal sleeping draw for his car. If it is unmolested for a longer period that I do not recall, it goes into the "storage mode" and the battery drain is even lower. The owner's manual says to disconnect the battery if you are going to let the car sit for more than about two weeks. There may be a way to put your car into the storage mode with the on-board computer or a Tech II, but I think that this still means that you should disconnect the battery if it is going to sit more than a couple of weeks. Or, put a battery maintainer on it.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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It's an everyday driver. A/C stated going wacky about a month ago. The drained battery started last week. As my NAPA guy suggested- seems the low rev blower should be on costant and not be cycling until the timed circuit shuts it down. Looking for a detailed diagram of the key-off blower circuit and diagnostic procedure.

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The blower motor circuit is internal to the blower. The 1997 FSM has a schematic of the front blower on page 8A-66-0 and the rear seat blower on page 8A-66-1. It's very simple.

For the front blower, the "requested fan speed" comes over the Class 2 (CAN bus, PWM data format) to the Heater and A/C Programmer (the ACM in the module list when you run the codes), which provides a blower control output over a GRY wire to the blower motor. The motor and blower speed control are internal to the motor. There is a BLK wire to ground and a hot feed on the RED wire from the 50 Amp INDVERT FUSE in the LH MAXIFUSE BLOCK.

The rear seat blower circuit is more complicated. The 10 Amp CONSOLE FUSE in the trunk compartment fuse block provides a hot-in-run voltage to the blower motor. There is a blower motor capacitor around the motor to keep the brush noise from causing problems for the electronics in the car. The motor is grounded through an amount of resistance selected by the blower speed control. The motor ground feeds back to the heater and A/C programmer so that it can throw a code if things aren't as they are supposed to be. The rear blower switch and temperature control are lighted using dimmable voltage.

Since the rear seat blower has power from hot-in-run and the battery drains with the key off, it's not the rear blower motor.

There should be a connector to the blower motor with RED, BLK and GRY wires. If you pull it off and the battery drain stops, it's the blower motor that draws the power. If there is a problem with the GRY wire, it can be a wiring harness problem or something with the heater and A/C programmer

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Sorry, some winter weather with snow slowed me up a bit. I've got: alldata and mitchel manuals, added a knife-blade battery disconnect and a battery post ratchet wrench. Didn't seem to solve the problem but my knuckles and attitude are better.

Both A & C connections have voltage and resistance in spec. B- they grey control wire is the question as well as the ACM input from the Climate Controls.

ACM is moving vacuum doors. Can't tell if its responding correctly. No fan response at all except for the low rev. off and on cycle described above (regardless of key position) . I did find with plugged into blower that I could ground the (gray) B connector with a test lead and it would stop the cycling. Voltage on grey wire stays a low of about 8V and peaks at battery charge at 12.3V .

Anything short of a Tech 1 scanner that can say yes/no to quality of: Climate Control signal to ACM and from ACM to Blower? I surmise this is the issue to resolve. I'd swear I replaced the ACM once before, trying to find receipt. Could there be other input/power problems causing ACM failure.

Can I test the blower by itself w/o the control wire?

Thanks so very much for your time and knowledge.

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Module failure is very rare. The thing that can pop your electronics all over the car is hooking jumper cables up backwards, or putting a fast charger on the battery while it is in the car. Something like that can brick the whole car. I'm sure that isn't your problem here.

Sometimes a module can be damaged by back-probing a connector with a multimeter that isn't safe for static-sensitive electronics. I *have* heard of that, with people looking to see if voltage or grounds to an EVAP solenoid are good and connecting the meter to a driver in the PCM. Ouch. The FSM has strict warnings not to back-probe connections in the wiring harness.

Usually, but not always, something will throw an OBD code when you have an electrical, performance, or sensor problem. I just checked this Topic and don't see where anyone has checked for OBD codes. Here's how to put your car's computer in the diagnostic mode and list the OBD codes. Get a pencil and paper handy, then turn the key on and wait a few seconds for the dash lights to settle to normal. Then, on the A/C console, press <Off> and <Pass Warmer> together for a few seconds, until all the dash lights light up like you just turned on the key. The codes will scroll across the driver information center below the speedometer. Write them down. They will be of the form

ACM B1347 CURRENT

The most important parts are the single letter with three numbers and the notation CURRENT or HISTORY. Write them down to post here. The list will end with the prompt "PCM?" You can press <Off> to catch any you missed or check the list. When you are done, you can take your car's computer out of the diagnostic mode by pressing the Auto button on the A/C, pressing "Info reset," or turning the key off. Sometimes it's best to run the OBD codes after driving the car and parking it, but before turning off the key, because all the OBD codes go to HISTORY when you turn off the key and sometimes you need to determine which codes are CURRENT When you drive the car.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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ok. Battery voltage from dash is 11.3 and vom says 11.9 at the battery.

Codes are: PC0603, IP1552, AC1340, NO SDM, NOTCS, RS- a slew of codes from suspension changes, PZ1552, PZ1558.

All seem to be related to battery disconnects except for the AC code. I tried a used (supposed to be good!) ACM and am getting the same response. No fan, cycles of and on w/key off , w/key on , and with engine running & with AC on.

I have used a piece of wire to ensure the vom connection while the blower motor is plugged in.

Engine running

AC setting: 75F., Auto

Fan speed HI: reading 6.15 to 8.95 Volts

Fan speed LOW: reading 10.83 to 15.68

AC setting OFF: reading 10.77- 15.15

The range shown is do to the same 15 second cycling.

WTF. Is my new meter screwy or why would I be seeing Voltage in excess of battery voltage? I have read so many versions of the same thing, basically trying to find what I have missed. I can't make sense of it. Now with the used ACM I still don't know for sure that I actually need a blower.

Following the GM 3 point diagnostic :

TEST 1. Engine running, AC-Auto

A. run blower high to low- no fan

B. Without a Tech 1 can't compare I/O of ACM so assume -yes data match

C. Check for >4V. at B connector w/fan set at HI /Auto. -yes at a minimum of 6v.

D. Resistance on 12+ and ground are less than 4 ohms

E. Connector B to ground is 1k ohm.

Results- Says replace blower. Can I trust not running Scanner test of actual output?

TEST 2. Does not apply to problem.

TEST 3.

A. Select LOW blower and Check for >9 volts at connector B -yes

B. Select HI blower and Check for <4 Volts at connector B -No

C. Check Ckt 754. Continuity at ASM connector Pin D4 and Blower connector Pin B. .4 Ohms

E. If Ok replace ACM

Also: onboad diagnostic shows no AC codes.

I'm going to put old ACM back and check once again. Do I send the new (used) one back ? is it defective like the one I have? OR

god no please, take my car and credit card to Cadillac......?

I'll post what compares on the original ASM.

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I spent about 45 minutes recapping my different test results with the original and new (used) ACM. Went back to edit and lost it all.

I had been using the GM diagnostic steps but knew I had a big hole not having a scan tool for step 1 control/ monitor signal comparisons.

This evening I ran across a post from N*Caddy on CadillacForums that gave me some needed help.

1. As I must have done 20 times with key-off: confirmed the connector female pins had 12+ on pin C to battery ground, then 12V between A (ground) and C confirmed ground.

2. From the male connectors on blower: Connected 12V+ to pin C, Ground to pin A, then 12V+ to center pin C.

3. Results: Shazam.... no blower

4. Select replacement fan

5. Install fan

So I hardly feel out-of-the-woods yet. I have certainly read a lot more about differing creative methods of installation than the available brands and whether new or used. Not planning on being buried in the car but I don't want to do this again. Any recommendations?

Also, any one sorted out all the different installation testimonials? I lean toward the least time and most remaining knuckle skin methods.

For my part I can offer after spending days on this with a DVOM and your collective help: I wish I could have seen through all the complexity, that you could isolate the blower and determine if motor failure was the issue, then you could focus more clearly on the ACM and control issues.

Thanks to all who share their hits and misses.

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