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Fuel Injector Cleaner


Marika

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I was looking at Valvoline Fuel Injector Cleaner and I'm wondering if it's safe to use in the 4.9L engine. <_>

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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the only stuff i will use is the berryman's fuel system cleaner...very heavy duty stuff...same chemicals that are used in techron put out by chevron. techron was the orignal fuel system cleaner recommended by some of the auto makers when the problem of dirty injectors started to become an issue back in the 80's when port fuel injection became more common. this stuff is so strong, they sell it in a metal container, no plastics here!!

when i use it, i add a container to at least 15 gallons of fuel. definitely don't add it to a tank almost empty and then drive it to the gas station...bad move...not good for the fuel pump wires. ps...i rarely use it these days...i have found that running regular grade gas (shell usually) keeps the fuel system clean on it's own...if it doesn't knock stay away from the hi-grade stuff...there additives in that grade to prevent or deter knocking, that can lead to deposits in the c/c and valves. jackg 90 seville 94k

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This discussion has been had a few times over the years. Bbobynksi has explained many times that the additive can damage the windings in the fuel pump. The only way I would use a product like Techron or the equivalant is to use the SMALL container in a FULL TANK and then ONLY on a trip were the fuel tank is emptied very quickly. I would never put the additive in and let it sit for a week while I drove locally and the fuel with the additive had time to do damage to the fuel pump. In spite of my precautions, I would not be surprised if bbobynski still felt the additive could do damage, hopefully he will chime in on this topic again. Mike

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Scotty pretty much summed it up. I would not recommend the use of any fuel system cleaner or additive unless there is a specific need for it or a definite problem diagnosis indicates and injector plugging problem.

Is there a specific driveabiliyt problem that you are hoping to cure with the fuel system cleaner or is it just a preventive maintenance or feel good type of thing to add the fuel system cleaner...??? I would never use any additive in the fuel system unless there is a specific need and then only use the GM stuff as it has been tested with our parts...and only use it in a full tank as described.

During Idle, the car "giggles" every so often. Maybe a fuel injector cleaner added to a full tank of gas, and I found there are brands specifically made for high mileage cars, might help.

Are you saying that adding ONE bottle of fuel injector cleaner WILL DEFINATELY harm the fuel pump? I've never heard of this for any other vehicle or is it something that is specific to Caddys?

60,600 miles and counting....

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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During Idle, the car "giggles" every so often. Maybe a fuel injector cleaner added to a full tank of gas, and I found there are brands specifically made for high mileage cars, might help.

Are you saying that adding ONE bottle of fuel injector cleaner WILL DEFINATELY harm the fuel pump? I've never heard of this for any other vehicle or is it something that is specific to Caddys?

60,600 miles and counting....

By giggles do you mean, to shudder, or stumble? If you do, park your car in a very dark location with the lights out, very dark, lift the hood and look to see if any of your ignition wires are arching anywhere. Stay clear of moving parts but stare at the engine and look for flashing, if you want to get adventurous, fill a spray bottle with water and mist your ignition wires and see if you get any arching Mike

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During Idle, the car "giggles" every so often.  Maybe a fuel injector cleaner added to a full tank of gas, and I found there are brands specifically made for high mileage cars, might help.

Are you saying that adding ONE bottle of fuel injector cleaner WILL DEFINATELY harm the fuel pump?  I've never heard of this for any other vehicle or is it something that is specific to Caddys?

60,600 miles and counting....

By giggles do you mean, to shudder, or stumble? If you do, park your car in a very dark location with the lights out, very dark, lift the hood and look to see if any of your ignition wires are arching anywhere. Stay clear of moving parts but stare at the engine and look for flashing, if you want to get adventurous, fill a spray bottle with water and mist your ignition wires and see if you get any arching Mike

Yes, a shudder, a-you-never-can-tell-when-it-will-happen, shudder. Nothing serious, but it's enough to be noticed by someone as particular and picky like me. :(

I'll try that misting of the wires, sounds better than doing drugs...LOLOLOL!!!! :lol:

(which I don't do) <_>

This reminds me of the time a friend and myself built a Van Degraaf generator. We were hysterical playing around with that thing.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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This reminds me of the time a friend and myself built a Van Degraaf generator. We were hysterical playing around with that thing.

Hmm I had to look that one up to find out what it was!

http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/c...ction&key=VG200

Now that I know what it is, I remember seeing one at the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia. Let us know what you find out under the hood. It has to be really dark however.. Mike

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More fun projects for "kids of all ages" is Jacob's Ladder, BUT, it requires safety procedures involved in the use of a very high voltage "toy". Be careful.

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/jacobs.htm#jlwij

As well as a Tesla Coil:

http://home.earthlink.net/~electronxlc/

Both Jacob's Ladder and the Tesla Coil are very dangerous to play around with, but if you're experienced with high voltage electricity, they can be an absolute "blast" to build and play with. Nothing beats a Tesla Coil, which throws "Lightning bolts" around the room. Be Careful if you decide to build and use these.

By the way, you'll notice the similarities between the Tesla Coil and a spark plug.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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Hi

I learned my lesson with fuel inj. cleaners!!! Both times I used the stuff it was in a 95 deville that I had the fuel pump failed shortly after I never connected the two On the last fuel pump the car had it actually ate the insulation on the fuel pump wires I was at the dealer and the mechanic showed me the fuel pump. The car would run fine and then just cut out sometimes it would run for a couple weeks when the conditions were riteg it just would cut out I don't put anything except gas in my tank..

Goos Luck

Jim

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Hi

I learned my lesson with fuel inj. cleaners!!! Both times I used the stuff it was in a 95 deville that I had the fuel pump failed shortly after I never connected the two On the last fuel pump the car had it actually ate the insulation on the fuel pump wires I was at the dealer and the mechanic showed me the fuel pump. The car would run fine and then just cut out sometimes it would run for a couple weeks when the conditions were riteg it just would cut out I don't put anything except gas in my tank..

Goos Luck

Jim

Well, after discussing this issue with many people, we came to the conclusion that Cadillac fuel pumps must be built like crap.

No one has ever heard of this happening in any car and by now I'm sure if it was a problem with cars in general, lawsuits would have been flying everywhere and at every company that makes injector cleaner including STP, Valvoline and others.

I dumped one bottle of STP Injector cleaner into a half full tank and proceeded to fill it up the rest of the way. Seems to run better now, smoother with more pick up.

We'll see what happens.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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Well, after discussing this issue with many people, we came to the conclusion that Cadillac fuel pumps must be built like crap.

OUCH! Marika, and I thought you were a starry eyed Cadillac lover!?!, lol, mike

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Marika Let us know if your fuel pump craps out!! Just curious

Good Luck

Jim

I'll let you know. I think given the fact that I didn't follow the bottle directions which said to add the stuff to an almost empty tank might help.

I added it to a tank that's half full, and then filled it up.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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Well, after discussing this issue with many people, we came to the conclusion that Cadillac fuel pumps must be built like crap.

OUCH! Marika, and I thought you were a starry eyed Cadillac lover!?!, lol, mike

I'm a stary eyed MINI Cooper lover. MINI is my first passion, Cadillac is my second passion.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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You need to discuss the subject with someone that knows what they are talking about. 

All electric fuel pumps for modern fuel injected cars are in the fuel tank and virtually all of them circulate the fuel directly thru the pump to cool the pump.  The fuel circulates directly around the armature windings so any harsh solvent in the fuel will eat the varnish like insulation off the armature windings.

This is not a specific problem to Cadillac or GM fuel pumps.  Pumps made by Bosch, Nippondenso, Diesel Kiki, Walbro and others are all susceptible to this problem.

Unless your friends that arrived at the conclusion you state have developed fuel systems for automobiles I would say that they are speaking completely from ignorance.

I HAVE developed fuel systems for automobiles and seen MANY failed fuel pumps, from various suppliers, returned from the field.  The vast majority of them are failed due to shorted armature windings causing excessive current draw.  The shorted armature windings were damaged from chemical/solvent attack from some substance in the fuel.  Since those fuel pumps were tested for many thousands of hours in just about any conceivable fuel known to man the conclusion is that some solvent, not normally found in gasoline, was put in the tank.

I have a spool of armature winding wire from a major fuel pump supplier.  Solvents in many gas treatments and injector cleaners, if wiped on the wire, will take the insulating coating off.  Been there, done that.  It happens.

I related an anecdote earlier about my parts cleaning tank that uses a Bosch PFI fuel pump along with dual/dual filters in series with the solvent line both before and after the pump.  The tank uses mineral spirits for cleaning solvent.  The pump will run forever as long as all it is circulating is mineral spirits.  EVERY time someone uses the tank as a catch basin for carb cleaner it kills the pump.  EVERY time.  Gumout carb cleaner spray is the WORST.....same with Gumout injector cleaner.  Need more proof...???

BTW....same is true for injectors....the fuel circulates directly around the windings in the injector...and strong solvents can damage them the same way.

The reason you don't "hear" of this or recognize it is because people do not realize or relate the use of the solvents to the fuel pump failing.  They may use the solvent and then have a fuel pump failure months later that was actually instigated by the solvent.  They just do not associate the two incidents as it is not part of their thought process that the injector cleaner could be the root cause of the fuel pump failure.

Good luck with the use of the STP product.

What appears to me, is that there is a NEED for absolute, scientifically controlled field testing of the fuel pumps, including testing of the additives that are found in fuel injector cleaning solutions as well as other solutions that are sold to the public and readily added to a tank of fuel. I also suspect that many gasolines, with additives that clean your fuel system, may also be suspect in the ruin of fuel pumps without the aid of external chemicals being added by the consumer.

Without scientific field testing, no one can say for sure, what caused the pumps to die.

Thousands of miles of use, and assuming something was added to the fuel, without actually knowing for certain that something was added, or, what was added, is not scientific evidence. If in fact it turns out that these products do damage fuel pumps, and only after extensive scientifically controlled field testing can this actually be determined, then the manufacturers of these products must be notified to stop manufacturing them and they must be brought to compensate vehicle owners for the damages.

I was also under the impression that the windings are sealed inside the pump and that unless the pump develops an internal leak, the windings will not be touched by the solutions, fuel or otherwise.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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However... here's an idea - before your next road trip ...before you fill up - add a can of gas line anti freeze (summer or winter)- specifically the one containing "iso propyl alcohol" - it will remove any moisture or condensation from your tank..works for me!

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However... here's an idea - before your next road trip ...before you fill up - add a can of gas line anti freeze (summer or winter)- specifically the one containing "iso propyl alcohol" - it will remove any moisture or condensation from your tank..works for me!

I added the one bottle of STP injector cleaner to a half full tank then proceeded to fill the tank the rest of the way.

Honestly, the car runs much better now and no more engine giggle at idle.

Given the fact that I don't use name brand fuel in my car, I might not be getting all the cleaners and detergents that are normally found in those name brand fuels so maybe, just maybe, she did need a little cleaning out.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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don't know exactly which stp cleaner you used (they make more than one from what i remember) but when i used it many moons ago and i took a sniff of it before putting it into the tank...it smelled ALOT like off the shelf kerosene and it LOOKED like it had an ounce or two of marvel mystery oil in it: can you say snake oil?

glad to hear though that it cleared up your problem. jacg 90 seville 94k

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My wife's 91 sts had a giggle or chuggle and wouldn't idle smooth. I ran a can of techron through and it seemed to help. So when it started doing it again I ran two cans through with a full tank of gas.

Shortly afterwards I ran the tests and found a leaky injector.

Replacing it did a lot to help. Then later it got worse. The latest testing shows several injectors with less than 12 ohms and one with 3.5 ohms.

So obviously now it needs a full set of injectors. Actually seven because the replaced one still reads 16.

The fuel pump still works so far, it's been a year since I added the techron. :unsure:

Along the fuel pump topic, my 97 gmc with 5.7 V8 had a fuel pump die along the highway. It was like cutting off the key, just stopped running.

You could still hear the pump running and the engine wouldn't fire.

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I'm a stary eyed MINI Cooper lover. MINI is my first passion, Cadillac is my second passion.

Well hell.. today must be my lucky day. My company car is a Mini, and my personal car is a STS. AND we only live like an hour away from each other!

Pictures available... of the cars or otherwise.

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I'm a stary eyed MINI Cooper lover.  MINI is my first passion, Cadillac is my second passion.

Well hell.. today must be my lucky day. My company car is a Mini, and my personal car is a STS. AND we only live like an hour away from each other!

Pictures available... of the cars or otherwise.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

You are gonna LOVE that MINI.

If you have dynamic stability control, turn it on, then try your hardest, in a parking lot, to spin the car and make it unstable. Can't be done. You have to turn the dynamic stability control OFF in order to do brake spins.

They are so fast and have that fun electric steering, it's like driving a go-cart....LOLOL!!!!!!

By the way, a little history about Mini and MINI.

Mini Cooper was the original Mini. It was voted car of the century in Europe, and for very good reason. It was also the only car to be banned from the races at Monte Carlo because of it's unfair advantage, it was the first front wheel drive, it even beat Jaguar. It's the only front wheel drive where the drive shafts are of equal length so NO TORQUE STEER on the Mini or MINI....NONE.

MINI Copper (notice the difference in the upper and lower case for the word "MINI") is the new version, still built in Oxford, England, still basically the same as the previous Mini, but loaded with BMW technology and a redesigned body that gives it the widest stance of all cars, except "Hummer the bummer". If you have the "S" version (stick shift), there's a power package available from John Cooper called "The Works". It includes racing cams, racing fuel injectors, special computer chips and other goodies to turn the engine of your MINI into a monster. There are also two frames and suspension systems available for the "S" model, regular and racing but since you've got a company car, it's probably just got the regular frame which is ok too.

To e-mail pics of the cars or "otherwise": marika57@optonline.net

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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If you have dynamic stability control, turn it on, then try your hardest, in a parking lot, to spin the car and make it unstable.  Can't be done.  You have to turn the dynamic stability control OFF in order to do brake spins.

Have you driven a 1997+ Cadillac with StabiliTrak? It's a much more refined system.

It's the only front wheel drive where the drive shafts are of equal length so NO TORQUE STEER on the Mini or MINI....NONE.

The Northstar has had equal length drive axles from its introduction for the 1993 model year. I would say mini-torque translates to a lack of discernable torque-steer. LOL

___________________________________________________

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I hadn't used additives for years. Maybe some STP in my '65' 442 in high school. A few years ago I put a cleaner additive in my 85 Eldorado and wham, there goes the fuel pump. Wondered about it but the lights didn't go on. Added cleaner to a different 85 Eldo two years later and whap, same results. Never again.

Kent

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The front drive Mopars with londitudal engines also have equal length axles. ;)

Whoever has equal length axles copied it from Mini. They were the first.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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