thaghost87 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I have a vacum leak, caddy said its from my intake gaskets and the plenum duct. they want $400 to replace both. Is either of these jobs complicated to do? any tips on this job, pics of the intake gasket? i read that the intake has to be removed to replace the plenum, but else is there that has to be done? are there any other components that i should inspect, or replace when doing this job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Dana, we can post the procedure for you. you will need an inch pound torque wrench and the tightening sequence. Where are you in Philadelphia? I need to make a trip to see my Aunt soon, maybe I can come by when you do this, can't promise but maybe. You will need a fuel line disconnect tool I think you have cop ignition you will need to pull the injector rail (not bad), do not attempt to clean the injector tips and you might buy injector o-rings If you recall the starter is under the intake. This is a matter of moving everything out of the way, removing the intake bolts, detaching the plenum duct and lifting the intake you will need to inspect the intake for damage since they had the engine out How extensive is your tool set? Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaghost87 Posted July 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Dana, we can post the procedure for you. you will need an inch pound torque wrench and the tightening sequence. Where are you in Philadelphia? I need to make a trip to see my Aunt soon, maybe I can come by when you do this, can't promise but maybe. You will need a fuel line disconnect tool I think you have cop ignition you will need to pull the injector rail (not bad), do not attempt to clean the injector tips and you might buy injector o-rings If you recall the starter is under the intake. This is a matter of moving everything out of the way, removing the intake bolts, detaching the plenum duct and lifting the intake you will need to inspect the intake for damage since they had the engine out How extensive is your tool set? Mike doesnt sound extensive enough. I have your basic rachets, and a bunch of sockets. I need some more tools, so if i need a few tools to do this job i wouldnt mind buying them as long as they arent very expensive. Im near 63rd n market but do most of my work in Wynfield right off city ave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Hmm, I see you are near Cobbs Creek, I used to play baseball with my Dad in Cobbs Creek near Springfield Avenue when I was a kid, I used to ride my bike from 47th and Springfield to Cobbs Creek... Here is the procedure 2000 Cadillac Seville -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Intake Manifold Removal Remove the brake booster hose from the throttle body. Remove the fuel pressure regulator vacuum tube from the fuel pressure regulator and the water crossover. Remove the PCV fresh air feed tube from the camshaft cover and the throttle body. Remove the PCV dirty air tube from the PCV valve and the intake manifold. Disconnect the fuel injector electrical connectors (1) from the fuel injectors. (someone comment on this, is this necessary, or will the injectors pop out with the electrical harness attached like on my 96) Remove the fuel injector wiring harness. Remove the fuel rail bracket nut from the engine lift bracket. Remove the fuel rail bolts. Lift and remove the fuel rail with injectors. Loosen the plenum duct clamp (1) in order to remove the intake manifold. Remove the intake manifold bolts. Remove the intake manifold. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Intake Manifold Installation Install the intake manifold, fitting the plenum duct over the intake manifold duct. Install the intake manifold bolts. Tighten Tighten the intake manifold bolts to 10 N·m (89 lb in). Tighten the plenum duct clamp (1) to the intake manifold. Tighten Tighten the plenum duct clamp to 2.75 N·m (24 lb in). Install the fuel rail with injectors. Install the fuel rail bolts. Tighten Tighten the fuel rail bolts to 10 N·m (89 lb in). Install the fuel rail bracket nut to the engine lift bracket. Tighten Tighten the fuel rail bracket nut to 10 N·m (89 lb in). Install the fuel injector wiring harness. Connect the fuel injector electrical connectors (1) to the fuel injectors. Install the PCV dirty air tube to the PCV valve and the intake manifold. Install the PCV fresh air feed tube to the camshaft cover and the water crossover. Install the fuel pressure regulator vacuum tube to the fuel pressure regulator and the throttle body. Install the brake booster hose to the throttle body. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaghost87 Posted July 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Thanks mike... Cant get much better than that!! Yup not far at all. I played basketball at the recreation center right near cobbs creek and spruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 When you area ready to do this Ill post the photos. Did you get a service manual yet? Do you have a digital camera or a cell phone camera, you can post photos here during the process and we can help. By the way, I did not find a tightening sequence, if you decide to do this we need to research that. There may be none in which case you can tighten gradually from the inside out using a criss cross pattern.. I want you to inspect the intake closely, especially if you don't see a breach in the plenum duct. I am hoping that they damaged the plenum duct R&Ring the engine. The intake must come out to replace the plenum duct, and according to my manual for the 2000 the intake gaskets are not reusable, so that is why they were doing the plenum AND intake manifold gaskets. If I came down there, we could do that job in a couple of hours. If you must remove the electrical connectors from the injector mark them, same thing for the ignition wires and coils. As a matter of fact, go to a Staples and buy some kind of tags that you can mark the ignition wires, injector wires, etc and you can start that in advance of the job. A Sharpie Permanant marker in Black, White and Yellow is good also. Mark everything and take digital photos for reassembly. I also buy large and small zip lock bags and keep related parts bolts nuts and hoses together. The WORST thing to do is to throw parts into a box as you disassemble this engine. Keep parts organized, and mark the bags with the sharpie where necessary Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaghost87 Posted July 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 When you area ready to do this Ill post the photos. Did you get a service manual yet? Do you have a digital camera or a cell phone camera, you can post photos here during the process and we can help. By the way, I did not find a tightening sequence, if you decide to do this we need to research that. There may be none in which case you can tighten gradually from the inside out using a criss cross pattern.. I want you to inspect the intake closely, especially if you don't see a breach in the plenum duct. I am hoping that they damaged the plenum duct R&Ring the engine. The intake must come out to replace the plenum duct, and according to my manual for the 2000 the intake gaskets are not reusable, so that is why they were doing the plenum AND intake manifold gaskets. If I came down there, we could do that job in a couple of hours. If you must remove the electrical connectors from the injector mark them, same thing for the ignition wires and coils. As a matter of fact, go to a Staples and buy some kind of tags that you can mark the ignition wires, injector wires, etc and you can start that in advance of the job. A Sharpie Permanant marker in Black, White and Yellow is good also. Mark everything and take digital photos for reassembly. I also buy large and small zip lock bags and keep related parts bolts nuts and hoses together. The WORST thing to do is to throw parts into a box as you disassemble this engine. Keep parts organized, and mark the bags with the sharpie where necessary No manual yet.. money a lil tight at the moment. I want to do my CPS's first then i will move on to this job.. If you come down let me know.. we definitely do work on the car.. it would be honor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 I also buy large and small zip lock bags and keep related parts bolts nuts and hoses together. The WORST thing to do is to throw parts into a box as you disassemble this engine. Keep parts organized, and mark the bags with the sharpie where necessary NOW I know what I have been doing wrong all these years. Thats probably why I have had to make so many runs to the parts store to buy extra bolts. I couldn't find the right one in the five gallon bucket. Just joking Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Dana, if it was mine, I would take a piece of hose or PVC pipe and listen all around the top of the engine, with the motor running, just in case a vacume hose was left off during the engine replacement ... And Dana if you do try this ... Please be very careful around the moving parts of a running motor ... good luck ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaghost87 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Dana, if it was mine, I would take a piece of hose or PVC pipe and listen all around the top of the engine, with the motor running, just in case a vacume hose was left off during the engine replacement ... And Dana if you do try this ... Please be very careful aroud the moving parts of a running motor ... good luck ... will try... and i do know when i first start the car i her a loud vacuum noise and get high rpm.. then the noise goes almost completely away, and my rmp's drop down to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 And Dana if you do try this ... Please be very careful around the moving parts of a running motor . good luck ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- will try... and i do know when i first start the car i her a loud vacuum noise and get high rpm.. then the noise goes almost completely away, and my rpm's drop down to normal. by Dana ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- interesting ... the engine heats up, and as the metals expand, there by shrinking the gaps, so to speak it improves slightly ??? Your prob. may well be more than a vacuum hose ... but I don't know, and keep up with giving us the symptoms ... We love the chase ... Dana, my original post to the above ... Was going to have been, that sometimes I find myself thinking to hard, about something that could be simple ... and now I am ROTFL at myself ... which is something I enjoy doing ... use the hose/pipe and find that noise ... and if it is a manifold problem, my dumb-ask would check to see, if by chance, a couple of bolts have worked loose, before I tore it down ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 all right , like the Tom Cruise movie ... you got me, when you mentioned baggies and parts labeling ... I am a baggie man too ... two cheap tricks, that I use are ... first. food twist ties work great for labeling they come in many colors and when I did/do a spark plug wire job on my cars I would start from what I considered the front of the engine and go with red, white, blue and green ... when I wanted to be fancy, I would add a extra twist tie to represent which side of the engine that it came from ... number two ... paint pencils are a must, not only can you get them in different colors and use that coding system ... but you can also, do as I do and use something like a binary code ... as I posted here early, I love to have a good laugh at my own expense ... I once, was swapping out a car motor and decide to do a good job and went to the store and bought a package of paper labels with very nice pieces of string, that you could use to attach to the connections, that were needed to be label as to where everything went ... my favorite girl, was kind enough to carefully label the tags, as I rattled them off ... she/I were using a felt pen ... Um-mm ... it rained ... think about it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaghost87 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 And Dana if you do try this ... Please be very careful around the moving parts of a running motor . good luck ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- will try... and i do know when i first start the car i her a loud vacuum noise and get high rpm.. then the noise goes almost completely away, and my rpm's drop down to normal. by Dana ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- interesting ... the engine heats up, and as the metals expand, there by shrinking the gaps, so to speak it improves slightly ??? Your prob. may well be more than a vacuum hose ... but I don't know, and keep up with giving us the symptoms ... We love the chase ... Dana, my original post to the above ... Was going to have been, that sometimes I find myself thinking to hard, about something that could be simple ... and now I am ROTFL at myself ... which is something I enjoy doing ... use the hose/pipe and find that noise ... and if it is a manifold problem, my dumb-ask would check to see, if by chance, a couple of bolts have worked loose, before I tore it down ... After about a minute or so.. the noise goes away. but its really loud when i first start the car. and the rpm would be at about 1100 or a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Hmm, I see you are near Cobbs Creek, I used to play baseball with my Dad in Cobbs Creek near Springfield Avenue when I was a kid, I used to ride my bike from 47th and Springfield to Cobbs Creek... Here is the procedure 2000 Cadillac Seville -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Intake Manifold Removal Remove the brake booster hose from the throttle body. Remove the fuel pressure regulator vacuum tube from the fuel pressure regulator and the water crossover. Remove the PCV fresh air feed tube from the camshaft cover and the throttle body. Remove the PCV dirty air tube from the PCV valve and the intake manifold. Disconnect the fuel injector electrical connectors (1) from the fuel injectors. (someone comment on this, is this necessary, or will the injectors pop out with the electrical harness attached like on my 96) Remove the fuel injector wiring harness. Remove the fuel rail bracket nut from the engine lift bracket. Remove the fuel rail bolts. Lift and remove the fuel rail with injectors. Loosen the plenum duct clamp (1) in order to remove the intake manifold. Remove the intake manifold bolts. Remove the intake manifold. I'm not sure on the electrical connectors to the fuel injectors but I am wondering what was changed from the '95-'97 vintage engine to the 00+ engine that requires the fuel rail to be removed? The previous generation engine had two fuel line disconnects near the brake booster - I left the injectors and fuel rail installed in the manifold when I had to remove it for the Timesert job. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 After about a minute or so.. the noise goes away. but its really loud when i first start the car. and the rpm would be at about 1100 or a little more. Dana, Does your engine have the air pump for the emission control? It is called an AIR INJECTION REACTOR. The air pumps sometimes make a strange noise that could be mistaken for a vacumn leak. The 1100 RPM may be normal on a cold start and nothing to worry about. Mine idles at about that RPM when first started on a cool day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmendo Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Dana, have you tried removing the beauty cover off of the top of the engine and have a look around at the intake manifold ??? Mine has four bolts and it comes off easily ... That is where I would try the pipe/hose trick and maybe look for cracks, loose bolts, etc. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 After about a minute or so.. the noise goes away. but its really loud when i first start the car. and the rpm would be at about 1100 or a little more. Dana, Does your engine have the air pump for the emission control? It is called an AIR INJECTION REACTOR. The air pumps sometimes make a strange noise that could be mistaken for a vacumn leak. The 1100 RPM may be normal on a cold start and nothing to worry about. Mine idles at about that RPM when first started on a cool day. As a matter of fact, I think Dana took photos of the air injection motor, it is missing a cover and the impeller is visible, Logan ID'd it... Is that correct Dana? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaghost87 Posted July 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 After about a minute or so.. the noise goes away. but its really loud when i first start the car. and the rpm would be at about 1100 or a little more. Dana, Does your engine have the air pump for the emission control? It is called an AIR INJECTION REACTOR. The air pumps sometimes make a strange noise that could be mistaken for a vacumn leak. The 1100 RPM may be normal on a cold start and nothing to worry about. Mine idles at about that RPM when first started on a cool day. As a matter of fact, I think Dana took photos of the air injection motor, it is missing a cover and the impeller is visible, Logan ID'd it... Is that correct Dana? Thats is correct. The cover that holds the hose onto the secondary air pump is broken off (passenger side right behind the fog lamp). This is the bottom of the air pump where the hose connects and then the cover goes over the hose to hold it on. This is the pump from the top. This is the other end of the hose, it comes from the pump and goes up about half a foot from the pump and connects to something(sorry forgot what it was connected to) and has this filter on the tip of it. Talked to caddy they said i have to buy the whole pump. They dont have just a cover. so i am going to check the junk yards first. could the hose not being connected be causing my lean bank codes? Could this be my vacuum leak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Thats is correct. The cover that holds the hose onto the secondary air pump is broken off (passenger side right behind the fog lamp). Talked to caddy they said i have to buy the whole pump. They dont have just a cover. so i am going to check the junk yards first. could the hose not being connected be causing my lean bank codes? Could this be my vacuum leak? Dana, I think you are right to find the cover for it and re-attach it properly. It pumps air into the exhaust system and if it is not RIGHT, there is a POSSIBILITY that it could be setting the codes. Not real sure of that, but since it is connected to the exhaust (and not working properly at the moment) and you are getting exhaust codes...... it may be possible. It can (and often does) sound like a vacumn leak when you first start it. I have always disliked the sound of those air pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaghost87 Posted July 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Thats is correct. The cover that holds the hose onto the secondary air pump is broken off (passenger side right behind the fog lamp). Talked to caddy they said i have to buy the whole pump. They dont have just a cover. so i am going to check the junk yards first. could the hose not being connected be causing my lean bank codes? Could this be my vacuum leak? Dana, I think you are right to find the cover for it and re-attach it properly. It pumps air into the exhaust system and if it is not RIGHT, there is a POSSIBILITY that it could be setting the codes. Not real sure of that, but since it is connected to the exhaust (and not working properly at the moment) and you are getting exhaust codes...... it may be possible. It can (and often does) sound like a vacumn leak when you first start it. I have always disliked the sound of those air pumps. I hope so.. that would mean my plenum and intakes are good!! i called several junk yards and its hard to find an sts. anyone knows what other models have this air pump that i couldget the cover from,?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 I thought that Cadillac said you had an intake leak, you are getting a lean code for both banks no? Didn't they confirm the plenum boot is damaged? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 The air injector pump shoots air into the CAT to "light it off quicker" when the engine is cold. The idea is to limit harmful emissions ASAP. It runs for about 45 seconds when a cold engine is started. It runs for about 30 seconds when a warm engine is started. Unless a tree-hugger is sticking a probe up your rear, you have little to worry about in that regard. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaghost87 Posted July 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 I thought that Cadillac said you had an intake leak, you are getting a lean code for both banks no? Didn't they confirm the plenum boot is damaged? i don know if they actually did any test on the plenum or intake. they didnt say for sure that it was either... but the way they put it was the procedure for fixing the lean was to replace the two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Dana, don't you just love this board? How hard would it be to own your car, without this board? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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