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update since head gasket issue


mikeal1892

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Hello all you great Cadillac minds ,

Since my car got fixed little things have been going wrong with it. My car is car to the dealership for yet another surgery. The new seal they put in the timing chain is leaking oil pretty good. After waiting for 2 weeks for an answer if Gm was going to take care of it under the warrenty I got an answer, Yes ! From what they are telling me its going to be atleast two weeks because the engine comes out and sits on a specail stand, and thats being used by the bodyshop currently. Also I might add its shutting its self off sometimes. One day while I was driving with the cruise set at 65. This has came and gone for a long while since the repairs. (cam senors) Or atleast this is what they seem to think. Now to the over heating again ? The Service Manager says that the car can get warmer within 3-4 degrees of what is normal and then it after going to fine it it goes to the first bar on the temp gauage right of center (hope Im making sense =) ).. This theory was based on the car sitting and idol. This was happening to me in stop in go driving in the city.

Well , Im fed up with this car. Its had an easy life never sat outside and waxed and looks like a show queen. I went to another local Gm dealership that deals in Cadillacs as well today. I can get an 05 Deville with 21k miles on it for less than 80 dollars more a month , however my car is just less than 2 years of being paid for but at the rate of things going wrong with the Seville I seem to think its a wise choice to either sell this car as soon as it comes home or trade it. I have had 5 Cadillacs and this has been something else..

Thank-you all for your input on this, and I hope your all healthy and happy !!! =)

Michael-

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Can't you monitor the coolant temp. on your DIC? It can reach some 230 in stop and go. Then the fans will turn on and cool it down to some 210.

The saddest thing in life is wasted talent

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Don't finance another one on top of this one

You're probably in too deep, way too deep, as it is..

This aint lovemaking, the only one who ends up in deep is the dealer in your *smurf*

I don't mean to offend you I just hate to see everyone doing their car buying this way-

look out before they emptor your caveat :D

Hello all you great Cadillac minds ,

Since my car got fixed little things have been going wrong with it. My car is car to the dealership for yet another surgery. The new seal they put in the timing chain is leaking oil pretty good. After waiting for 2 weeks for an answer if Gm was going to take care of it under the warrenty I got an answer, Yes ! From what they are telling me its going to be atleast two weeks because the engine comes out and sits on a specail stand, and thats being used by the bodyshop currently. Also I might add its shutting its self off sometimes. One day while I was driving with the cruise set at 65. This has came and gone for a long while since the repairs. (cam senors) Or atleast this is what they seem to think. Now to the over heating again ? The Service Manager says that the car can get warmer within 3-4 degrees of what is normal and then it after going to fine it it goes to the first bar on the temp gauage right of center (hope Im making sense =) ).. This theory was based on the car sitting and idol. This was happening to me in stop in go driving in the city.

Well , Im fed up with this car. Its had an easy life never sat outside and waxed and looks like a show queen. I went to another local Gm dealership that deals in Cadillacs as well today. I can get an 05 Deville with 21k miles on it for less than 80 dollars more a month , however my car is just less than 2 years of being paid for but at the rate of things going wrong with the Seville I seem to think its a wise choice to either sell this car as soon as it comes home or trade it. I have had 5 Cadillacs and this has been something else..

Thank-you all for your input on this, and I hope your all healthy and happy !!! =)

Michael-

I think all that is going wrong with the car is all that is going wrong with your choice of mechanic... and thinking in terms of monthly payments rather than total cost will haunt you like a night with a herpes infested hooker ;)

Step back and look at the situation and go from there B)

MerryChristmas

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MerryChristmas

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The car is my only thing I owe anything on. Im one of the few people I know that doesnt believe in oweing for everything I have. Save Save as much as I can. I get these parts at cost as well but for 2-3k here and there . I may as well have new. I know that the torue converter will be getting fixed and the labor cost will be based after the engine comes out of the car. Some what of a deal. I just lost 3k for the head gaskets and anything 2k misc& suspension. I gave 7k for this car 2 years ago with 60k miles on it. Is had only dealer serivce and owned by a bored doctors wife. I suspect this will cost me atleast 1k. I will most likely sell it and wait until after the first of the year sometime to buy something else. Yes I can carry the 2k over or put cash down on it this, but Im leaning towards waiting.

Michael -

I have known the Service Manager for years and they do alot for me for free. I own a biz that buys alot of car parts from this dealer but my guys dont like working on the Cadillacs when it comes to taking the engine out. Just a basic repairs really.

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Hang in there. GM dealer technicians are "graded" on their come-backs. If it's the technician, you will get another soon. Also, you should talk over the increasing problems situation, without mentioning trade-in or any plan other than getting the car right -- just like all the other 1998's on the road -- with your service manager. If he starts moving the conversation to trade-in, politely break off the conversation.

I bought my 1997 new and ever since it got to 30,000 miles, I have had pressure to trade it in. Things I've seen include, but are not limited to, the following:

  • Disconnected oil level sensor, loosened oil cooler fitting; car runs out of oil (caught it because I exited a freeway ramp and saw the oil light flicker just before the oil pump sucked air). I've seen this one posted here by others to get people to trade. It doesn't hurt the engine if you don't run it with the oil light solid on.
  • Broken off surge tank fitting; piece, with brass insert, shoved into hose and hose clamped on 1/4" of plastic without brass insert (replaced surge tank myself after years of adding coolant, and still have the parts).
  • Sudden onset of massive oil burning (about quart every 500 miles) at about 70,000 miles in a car that had never used oil; controlled it thereafter by adding two pints of CD2 detergent after first quart burnt after each oil change ("Check Engine Oil" message never comes on in 3,000 mile oil change interval); eventually caught technician skipping an oil change completely.
  • When coolant age hit 5 years, mechanic "wants to talk to me" on the phone; tells me head bolts will pull out, o-ring will blow, and oil will burn -- early N* is weak engine and GM "had to redesign it" and I should trade for newer model; hung up on me when I said "that engine won't go in my car." No mention of coolant change.
The dealers were gold, the service managers were the best. When the dealers caught some of these things some people were disciplined or even fired. Eventually I decided that I must face the fact that my baby is now an old car, one that some dealer technicans don't want to see on their bay when everybody else has a nice new car to work on. I know of several non-dealer mechanics that would love to work on my car, and by trial I have found one that seems to be at least as good as the Goodwrench trained technicians. I recommend a new car dealer for non-warranty work on old cars that has real benefits in warranty or necessary Goodwrench training or equipment, such as A/C compressor or complex electrical diagnosis. But, for routine maintenance and simple things like stalling, I either fix it myself (the rule) or go to a mechanic (things I can't lift, like the Jasper remanufactured engine). Note that your timing chain cover gasket leak is covered because it was changed by a GM dealer within the previous year. I plan to drive my car as long as I can get parts for it from anyone.

Anyone who lets a dealer or technician decide for them when to trade a car has delegated the wrong decision to someone with the worst possible conflict of interest.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Hello all you great Cadillac minds ,

Since my car got fixed little things have been going wrong with it. My car is car to the dealership for yet another surgery. The new seal they put in the timing chain is leaking oil pretty good. After waiting for 2 weeks for an answer if Gm was going to take care of it under the warrenty I got an answer, Yes ! From what they are telling me its going to be atleast two weeks because the engine comes out and sits on a specail stand, and thats being used by the bodyshop currently. Also I might add its shutting its self off sometimes. One day while I was driving with the cruise set at 65. This has came and gone for a long while since the repairs. (cam senors) Or atleast this is what they seem to think. Now to the over heating again ? The Service Manager says that the car can get warmer within 3-4 degrees of what is normal and then it after going to fine it it goes to the first bar on the temp gauage right of center (hope Im making sense =) ).. This theory was based on the car sitting and idol. This was happening to me in stop in go driving in the city.

Well , Im fed up with this car. Its had an easy life never sat outside and waxed and looks like a show queen. I went to another local Gm dealership that deals in Cadillacs as well today. I can get an 05 Deville with 21k miles on it for less than 80 dollars more a month , however my car is just less than 2 years of being paid for but at the rate of things going wrong with the Seville I seem to think its a wise choice to either sell this car as soon as it comes home or trade it. I have had 5 Cadillacs and this has been something else..

Thank-you all for your input on this, and I hope your all healthy and happy !!! =)

Michael-

You have been frustrated with this car from the beginning. It does not matter that it has had an easy life, sometimes the easy life creates problems. I think you said you have 110K miles, thats about 12,000 miles a year. You admitted your coolant was not changed on time, that is why you needed the head gasket. The head gasket job was not done right (not timeserted) because your mechanic (dealer?) couldn't or wouldn't do it.

If I were you, I would get rid of the torque convertor code, fix the stalling and trade it in as soon as possible. Unless you plan to sell it privately and disclose that it was not time-serted which would hurt your sales price just as bad as trading it in. You are unhappy, take a page from Big Jay's playbook, SELL IT.. You are thrilled with your LHS, life is too short to be unhappy. The next time you buy a cadillac you will know exactly what to look for (service records, maintenance history, coolant change frequency, codes, etc)

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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P0741 - TCC System Stuck Off
The TCC is the Torque Converter Clutch, and the solenoid that controls it is a lot more likely the problem than the torque converter clutch. The 1997 FSM for this DTC, pages 7-118 and 7-119, has a couple of hints. First, the DTC turns off (but stays as a history code) and the SERVICE ENGINE SOON, SERVICE TRANSMISSION message turns off after three consecutive trips without the failure. These initial steps are recommended before troubleshooting:
  • Check the transmission fluid level for proper amount of fluid..
  • Check the transmission fluid lines to the radiator for pinches, twists, or obstructions.
If the transmission gets too hot, it goes into a protective "hot" mode and sets P0741. That can happen in unusual use such as pulling a long, steep hill in a lower gear at part throttle, or if you are towing something -- or if the transmission oil cooler lines are blocked. The troubleshooting chart on page 7-119 suggests these things in order:
  • Make sure that the transmission fluid level is correct.
  • Clear the code and see if it sets again immediately.
  • Make sure that the brake switch circuit is OK, and that DTC P0719 is not set.
  • Drive the vehicle at 45 mph and see if the clutch engages (torque converter bypass clutch engages; this is subtle and if you can't feel it you might ask someone who can feel this happen in Cadillac to do this for you).
  • Inspect the TCC control valve, the TCC feed valve, the transmission oil pressure screen, the torque converter itself for "ballooning," and the gaskets and seals for leaking or sludge.
The last check is the main check. You don't have enough miles to cause the leak problems unless the transmission has been repeatedly abused and overheated, which is hard to do and quite uncommon unless you use the car for towing. Torque converter ballooning is caused by massive abuse such as revving the engine and throwing it into gear. If you have been flushing the transmission every 30,000 miles or so, it shouldn't have sludge problems; then the most likely problem is the TCC valve or solenoid. Posts here tell me that the actuation solenoids of the 4T80-E do sometimes give trouble, probably because of road salt contamination. If I was going to keep the car, I would replace all of them.

BodybyFisher, please understand that I may disagree about selling the car based on the posts by mikeal1892. Most of the problems are easily solvable and the car seems to be quite viable once the car is straightened out. If the dealer pulled the heads and didn't timesert it, then they will have to within a year, under warranty. One bar over the center isn't overheating, but I would check the coolant for proper level and 50/50 mixture.

And, 160,000 miles is not at all unusual for a number of cars on this forum owned by people who post solutions, not problems. Selling the car may or may not be the right decision, and I would suggest that you have an independent inspection done on the car by a mechanic that you would use to look at a car that you were thinking of buying. If he passes your car, you might consider keeping it. If he fails it, then perhaps you should consider wholesaling it and let a dealer or another individual refurbish it for someone else. But, myself, I would be very cautious before changing cars if I like the one that I have, because no matter how you figure it a car change is very expensive, like The Fred says.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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THANK-YOU THANK-YOU THANK-YOU

The code came on just before the headgaskets went out, but there was maybe a month or 2 I cant really remember. I have had the trans powerflush when the headgaskets went out and it shifted smoother and was noticable better( I was totally impressed) but the code p0741 kept coming back. They also added some Gm addative to ? dont know what this is. I do admit the coolant wasnt changed per the book but it wasnt far behinde.

The dealer claimed they have had very poor luck with timeserting, and if it doesnt last they will fix it. They do just about anything I want and theres rarely a charge. I love my car alot ! Im grateful to have it. But looking at her service records shes always been having work..

Jim dont give BBf such a hard time hes like my Cadillac father, We chat on aol a bit. He told me to set up that last post so you would tell us :)

God bless you all , ( I wish every car brand had a communtiy like we do here). I dont know where I would be with this car today if it wasnt for you guys!

160k ? Sounds good to me ! My 1996 had 169k miles on it and never any issues just a total suspension replacement and we put almost 50k miles on her.

Thank-you again,

Michael Southward

Bloomington,Indiana

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* I had see the other post about ripping off just more information from my sitaution* :)

My dealer thats working on my car has never asked me to consider trading it in ever. They know I wont buy from them. Over in the next town there is another GM dealer that will under sell them but has a very limited service dept.

The Service Manager I have known for years, and I'll take his advice and then I take that and I ask you guys ! I dont really think they're out to make money off me since they see me very often. they could have charged me closer to 5k for my headgaskets but it was only like 2,100k and I had the parts charged to my buisness account at cost. From what I learned on why they didnt want to timesert it was from the number of come back and the guys out in the garage do not like doing it. While the engine is out I will be there when its ready to come out to personally look over the head gaskets with a guy from my shop.

All I do is work in the office doing books and ordering parts things of that nature when Im there. I work for a Real Estate broker most of the time ,but will be going to school in Louisville and living down in Kentucky during the week. And I want the Seville to come with me!

And If I have to we have a Jasper account, and a friend that worked for me at a high end parts yard in Florida. Whatever it takes "We" will win ! :)

thanks for your time ,

Michael-

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BodybyFisher, please understand that I may disagree about selling the car based on the posts by mikeal1892. Most of the problems are easily solvable and the car seems to be quite viable once the car is straightened out. If the dealer pulled the heads and didn't timesert it, then they will have to within a year, under warranty. One bar over the center isn't overheating, but I would check the coolant for proper level and 50/50 mixture.

And, 160,000 miles is not at all unusual for a number of cars on this forum owned by people who post solutions, not problems. Selling the car may or may not be the right decision, and I would suggest that you have an independent inspection done on the car by a mechanic that you would use to look at a car that you were thinking of buying. If he passes your car, you might consider keeping it. If he fails it, then perhaps you should consider wholesaling it and let a dealer or another individual refurbish it for someone else. But, myself, I would be very cautious before changing cars if I like the one that I have, because no matter how you figure it a car change is very expensive, like The Fred says.

an

Jim, I know Mike, we talk often. Mike is very frustrated with this car. If you look back in his threads, he is here >>> Well , Im fed up with this car. If his head gaskets last beyond the 12 month warranty and go in 13 months he will REALLY be screwed and further soured. I had recommended that he trade this car in as soon as it was NOT time-serted. I would be really PO'd if the head gaskets lasted beyond 12 months because NOW all the risk is MINE, and the RISK is HIGH.

Complicating this is that Mike doesn't do the work himself so its costly. All Mike needs is for this car to blow its head gaskets at 13 months. There comes a point to FOLD... and find a low mileage car. The lack of TIME-SERTING is enough for me to say TRADE IT IN, wholeheartedly. I would like to see him with a caddy he is very HAPPY with!

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Hey, I've had dudes in the Cadillac dealer service waiting room gush about the new features, like the roller tappets, the digital radio, regular gas, 320 hp, 4WD, etc. etc. and my reply is that these new cars don't change my car or make its wheels fall off.

I once had a 1959 Chevrolet that was a Texas Tornado -- driven 100,000++ miles and traded at 18 months age -- and I drove it another 130,000 miles. Yes, the front wheels fell off; the spindles snapped through the cotter pin holes at 195,000 and 215,000 miles. I changed the spindles and kept driving it. A few years later I sold it to a minister who loved it and drove it for a few more years. Boston salt finally got the frame above the rear suspension.

I had a 1975 Honda 750 cc Super Sport motorcyle for 25 years. In 1979, I was about to trade it in on a new Honda 750 twin-cam (mine was SOHC) when one of them tried me on the highway with no traffic. After cleaning his clock, I lost all interest in trading it for another 20 years. However, I love my current Suzuki Bandit 1200 S.

I once saw a brochure sent by Ford to new car purchasers with cars two to four years old. It described the cost of ownership and cost of driving versus number of years before trade-in, and it made an incredible case for keeping the car as long as you could. Cost per mile declined after four years, reaching a minimum at 12 years (!!!) and staying there. The key is selecting a car that you can keep nice as it ages, like a Cadillac. I traded my 1990 Grand Am Quad 4 HO in 1997 because the dash cracked in half from the windshiled to the speedometer, and a similar crack appeared in one of the rear window frames, and other non-repairable doggy things were starting to happen.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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...

Jim, I know Mike, we talk often. Mike is very frustrated with this car. If you look back in his threads, he is here >>> Well , Im fed up with this car. If his head gaskets last beyond the 12 month warranty and go in 13 months he will REALLY be screwed and further soured. I had recommended that he trade this car in as soon as it was NOT time-serted. I would be really PO's if the head gaskets lasted beyond 12 months because NOW all the risk is MINE, and the RISK is HIGH.

Complicating this is that Mike doesn't do the work himself so its costly. All Mike needs is for this car to blow its head gaskets at 13 months. There comes a point to FOLD... and find a low mileage car. The lack of TIME-SERTING is enough for me to say TRADE IT IN, wholeheartedly. I would like to see him with a caddy he is very HAPPY with!

BodybyFisher, it does look like the dealer put him in a position where he might be well advised to get out before the warranty runs out on the head gasket job. My assumpition is that it won't go a year if it wasn't timeserted, but in point of fact these things aren't predictable.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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we shall start praying now !

Michael, personally, I would dump it....and I love to gamble. The stakes are too high though. If your gaskets blow again...then what? I think before you had your head gaskets done, you weren't as confident in the board as you are now. You were new to the board then, correct? If you had adhered to their advise then, you could/should have found another dealership to take your car to, and had the timeserting done. I remember when you told us the job was done, and you said something to the effect "oh, btw, they didn't timesert it". We were in "shock". Oh well, that's water under the bridge...time to move on. I agree with Mike, life's too short to be unhappy. There are plenty of other good Caddies out there, waiting for a new home! Good Luck with your decision!

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Hello,

I was wondering if my P0741 code could be something other than the TC if it could be a sensor or TC solenoid ?

Thank you for your time,

Michael

Mike here is a scan of the P0741 code from my manual, I am not sure it could be a bad solenoid as it would set a P1860 code. Some testing should be done, a dealer with a scan tool should be able to diagnose this. Do you have a FSM? There are more pages to this.. Mike

These photos are from photobucket, I hope I dont blow my bandwidth allocation over there, I am new to this linking method... you might want to save these scans locally..

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Here is the second page, as you can see a scan tool is the only way to go,

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Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Mike, I am not sure, I think the side pan has to be removed requiring that you drop the carriage. I am going out, I will look in my manual later to see. Maybe someone else knows for sure, Mike

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Don't qoute me on this, but I think someone once said that it can be done by lowering the cradle a bit on the drivers side to get enough access to remove the side cover through the wheel well.

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