1998 - 2004 Seville handling modification

[Bill K]

With so many reporting positive results after this add-on, you have to wonder what Cadillac was thinking when it deleted the brace.

Regards,

Warren

Probably the same thing they were thinking when they deleted the trunk pull down, auto dimmer, keyhole on passenger door, lighters & ashtrays ect.

Bottom line, baby.......

[Rickster]

Found a brace today. Probably the last one on the lower mainland. Dealer looked it up on his system, found one at another dealer about 10 miles away. Any others would have to be ordered from the good old USA. Drove over and picked it up. Gona put it on right now. Will report back later.

Rick

[Rickster]

It's on. It was easy. Feels a little stiffer. Didn't really have the time or place to give er go, but will in the very near future. Just looking at it, it is pretty obvious that there will be more support in those diving cornering moves. Cheap part. No worries about wasting money.

[BodybyFisher]

It's on. It was easy. Feels a little stiffer. Didn't really have the time or place to give er go, but will in the very near future. Just looking at it, it is pretty obvious that there will be more support in those diving cornering moves. Cheap part. No worries about wasting money.

Nice, let us know if you feel any improvement! Mike

[thu]

I wonder if I can take the strut brace out of my 93 Deville and stick it in my 2003 Seville STS. I'll have to make some measurements tonight.

[mikeal1892]

Think what is for real? Adding a strut tower brace?

No No No. The results. The mind is a terrible thing. If your looking for results, you usally find them even though they might not be there. Not to take away from others that have had sucess. I will more than likey do it myself but just woundering.

I installed the strut brace on my car, and the positive results are real. Do this test. Take a curve (highway on and off ramps work beautiful for this) until your tires start to squeal. Notice the speed. Buy and install the strut brace. Do the same test, on the same curve, in the same weather conditions. You will notice a faster speed before tire squeal happens. If you do not, let me know, and I'll send you $20 for giving a false testimony. Believe me, it is worth it. It is not dramatic, but I see 5-10 mph faster on most turns. Now I do not drive like this all the time. But when I do, it makes all the difference in the world.

Don

Good enough for me. Will try to locate some this week.

Rick

Does anybody have a photo of these braces installed. Would like to see what they look like.

Here is a photo of a strut tower brace on a 96 Deville, Mike

Mike, that siren is Large!!1 I wouldnt want anyone jacking your good ride!

[BodybyFisher]

Mike that isn't my car.....

[mikeal1892]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH,

You got me !

Michael

[mikeal1892]

I think Im going to order the brace on Monday. At cost its like 23 dollars so Im getting one. I certainly feel it will tighten things up a bit, and its prolley good for the life of the F45 struts..

Michael-

[Rickster]

Found a brace today. Probably the last one on the lower mainland. Dealer looked it up on his system, found one at another dealer about 10 miles away. Any others would have to be ordered from the good old USA. Drove over and picked it up. Gona put it on right now. Will report back later.

Rick

Had a chance to go for a good long ride today. There is for sure a differance in the handling. Not major, but very noticable. Well worth the investment.

[JohnnyG]

Shipped today!

[JohnnyG]

I received and installed the brace today. The best way to describe the difference is "Subtle but Significant". A very worthwhile addition in my opinion. It did EXACTLY what I had hoped it would do and then some. It was redily apparent that it firmed up the body flex in the front end, evidenced by more precise reactions to steering input. What I DIDN'T expect, was that in doing this, it also reduce driver fatigue from steering wheel "jiggle". It made the whole car feel firmer and more substantial. Also, as I had expected, it reduced the amount of "mid-curve" adjustments needed to counteract body flex, and reduced minor steering adjustments caused by dips in the road surface...all of which reduce driver fatigue and percived instability via the steering wheel.

I did "personalize" the installation a little by using some Gorilla Glue on the brace to body junctures, and of course using removable locktite on the bolts after finding them rather loose a few days ago. Things like this may not add a bit to the rigidity of the bar....but they make me feel better. It's the main reason I do almost all of my own mechanic work.

I have not tried high speed driving yet, but feel that at speeds over 100, the reduced jiggle will make the car much more stable and capable by eliminating road induced steering variations.

I can also see why some might feel (incorrectly) that the addition of this brace reduces the tire balance/out-of-round problems that these cars are prone to. Most body movements from the front suspension are changed from lateral to verticle, which means the suspension system can act on them and dampen the movements better, and less is felt in the steering wheel.

The highway test begins on Saturday. Just a short 3 hr. trip to Pittsburgh on I77 & I70, then back again. I might take up to speed, but that depends on how soundly the wife is sleeping at the time.

Thanks for the tip! I REALLY like the improvement!

[Rickster]

I received and installed the brace today. The best way to describe the difference is "Subtle but Significant". A very worthwhile addition in my opinion. It did EXACTLY what I had hoped it would do and then some. It was redily apparent that it firmed up the body flex in the front end, evidenced by more precise reactions to steering input. What I DIDN'T expect, was that in doing this, it also reduce driver fatigue from steering wheel "jiggle". It made the whole car feel firmer and more substantial. Also, as I had expected, it reduced the amount of "mid-curve" adjustments needed to counteract body flex, and reduced minor steering adjustments caused by dips in the road surface...all of which reduce driver fatigue and percived instability via the steering wheel.

I did "personalize" the installation a little by using some Gorilla Glue on the brace to body junctures, and of course using removable locktite on the bolts after finding them rather loose a few days ago. Things like this may not add a bit to the rigidity of the bar....but they make me feel better. It's the main reason I do almost all of my own mechanic work.

I have not tried high speed driving yet, but feel that at speeds over 100, the reduced jiggle will make the car much more stable and capable by eliminating road induced steering variations.

I can also see why some might feel (incorrectly) that the addition of this brace reduces the tire balance/out-of-round problems that these cars are prone to. Most body movements from the front suspension are changed from lateral to verticle, which means the suspension system can act on them and dampen the movements better, and less is felt in the steering wheel.

The highway test begins on Saturday. Just a short 3 hr. trip to Pittsburgh on I77 & I70, then back again. I might take up to speed, but that depends on how soundly the wife is sleeping at the time.

Thanks for the tip! I REALLY like the improvement!

Great discription. That pretty much sums up what I felt but you used 400 more words. Well worth the few dollars spent.

Rick

[JimD]

There is an opportunity to tighten up the rear suspension flex just a little bit. I have been noodling a few ideas for bracing the rear shock towers for less than the price of a decent bottle of wine.

The compromise is giving up an option or two on trunk storage configuration.

[JohnnyG]

There is an opportunity to tighten up the rear suspension flex just a little bit. I have been noodling a few ideas for bracing the rear shock towers for less than the price of a decent bottle of wine.

The compromise is giving up an option or two on trunk storage configuration.

I was actually thinking about that today. My old '86 Merkur had aftermarket front AND rear shock tower braces, I always wanted both, but could never afford either.

The rear of these cars suffers many the same "jitters" as the front, and it would be nice to calm them down.

From a handling standpoint, these cars could use a little more oversteer. Unfortunately, increasing the stiffness of the front should increase UNDERsteer, the exact opposite of what we need to achieve. So, logically, increasing the stiffness of the rear, either in the form of strut tower braces or sway bars, will help balance the car's handling. I was thinking that the rear seat bracing contributed to the stiffness of the rear more than any other body area, so I would suggest work on that structure would be beneficial WITHOUT sacrificing much trunk space.

I'm not going to road race the STS, so unless I feel that understeer was increased too much with this little mod, I'm not going to worry about it, but you are correct in investigating the possibility. Find a rear sway bar to go with the brace, and I might be interested.

As the car is now, I will most likely reduce the rear tire pressures a little (2.5#)if I find understeer increased too much. (or increase the front tp) The next long sweeping exit ramp at 70+ will tell me pretty quickly.

[JimD]

I am fortunate to have an ideal test track within a few miles of my driveway; an Interstate interchange with a perfectly banked climbing 270 degree turn with a slightly reduced radius at the far end. My bride always says "I know why we are on this road" as we motor along with the gear selector in 2.

Bracing the shock towers is not going to be as simple as bracing the strut towers. And it might not prove to be the best bang for the buck. But I plan to look at aluminum angle material and perforated garage door track suspension pieces (also angle material) from Home Despot or Lowes and see what might be possible.

Investigating the possiblilties here is not at the top of my list until after mid-July. If anyone else has time to take this to another level, please share the information.

My thanks to the person on the other board who came up with the part # for the strut tower brace!

[Ed Hall]

Another possibility to increase front grip would be to set the front suspension with a negative camber. Negative camber is when the tops of the tires are inboard of the contact path. / \ The way it works is as your vehicle transfers its weight to the outside tire, the suspension travels up, and the car leans over on the edge of the tire. If there was negative camber to the wheel, then as the car leans into the turn, it will fall onto the flat part of the tread instead of the tire's sidewall. So basically when the balance between too much and too little camber has been achieved, the size of the contact patch can be increased during a turn.

I've found that on my Eldorado that running negative camber of .7 degrees is about optimum.

[Scotty]

Another possibility to increase front grip would be to set the front suspension with a negative camber. Negative camber is when the tops of the tires are inboard of the contact path. / \ The way it works is as your vehicle transfers its weight to the outside tire, the suspension travels up, and the car leans over on the edge of the tire. If there was negative camber to the wheel, then as the car leans into the turn, it will fall onto the flat part of the tread instead of the tire's sidewall. So basically when the balance between too much and too little camber has been achieved, the size of the contact patch can be increased during a turn.

I've found that on my Eldorado that running negative camber of .7 degrees is about optimum.

Very interesting Ed. I recently had my car 4 wheel aligned and inquired about negative camber. The tech (who appears to be pretty good) did not recommend it for my Deville saying that the negative camber negatives would probably would outweigh the benefits.. like poor steering wheel returnability... Did you have negative camber done to the front and back? thanks

[Ed Hall]

Very interesting Ed. I recently had my car 4 wheel aligned and inquired about negative camber. The tech (who appears to be pretty good) did not recommend it for my Deville saying that the negative camber negatives would probably would outweigh the benefits.. like poor steering wheel returnability... Did you have negative camber done to the front and back? thanks

Just the front on my Eldorado. The rear on an 88 Eldorado is not as simple since there is no adjustment for this. However, on my parents Deville, there was an adjust for this in the rear and we alligned it with negative camber on all for corners when we replaced the struts. For the rear, you want to go with about negative 1.5 degrees.

On both cars, there is no problems whatsoever with steering wheel returnability. Negative camber is very common in sports cars.

[Scotty]

Thanks Ed. Yes that is exactly why I inquired about negative camber to improve the cornering on my boat, oh I mean Deville... Glad to hear that there were no negative aspects to this, next time I get an alignment, I will insist they add in some negative camber, Mike

[Bruce Nunnally]

Won't negative camber make for faster inside shoulder wear on the tires?

What is the spec for rear camber on those cars? My 92 STS manual says nothing about camber in the rear, which I take to mean 0 degrees. The front is listed as -0.5 degrees for left and +0.5 degrees for right, both +/- 0.5 degrees.

[JimD]

Negative camber angle is the specified condition.

The camber specified in the '98 manual gives quite a bit of latitude; and the front suspension is a net build that would require enlarging the top strut mount holes to adjust camber.

Front = -0.2 plus or minus 0.5 degrees. So any camber angle from -0.7 to +0.3 degrees is acceptable.

Rear SLS = -0.3 plus or minus 0.5.

Rear STS = -0.6 plus or minus 0.5.

[Ed Hall]

Won't negative camber make for faster inside shoulder wear on the tires?

I haven't had any problems with this.

[bweekes]

There is an opportunity to tighten up the rear suspension flex just a little bit. I have been noodling a few ideas for bracing the rear shock towers for less than the price of a decent bottle of wine.

The compromise is giving up an option or two on trunk storage configuration.

I was actually thinking about that today. My old '86 Merkur had aftermarket front AND rear shock tower braces, I always wanted both, but could never afford either.

The rear of these cars suffers many the same "jitters" as the front, and it would be nice to calm them down.

From a handling standpoint, these cars could use a little more oversteer. Unfortunately, increasing the stiffness of the front should increase UNDERsteer, the exact opposite of what we need to achieve. So, logically, increasing the stiffness of the rear, either in the form of strut tower braces or sway bars, will help balance the car's handling. I was thinking that the rear seat bracing contributed to the stiffness of the rear more than any other body area, so I would suggest work on that structure would be beneficial WITHOUT sacrificing much trunk space.

I'm not going to road race the STS, so unless I feel that understeer was increased too much with this little mod, I'm not going to worry about it, but you are correct in investigating the possibility. Find a rear sway bar to go with the brace, and I might be interested.

As the car is now, I will most likely reduce the rear tire pressures a little (2.5#)if I find understeer increased too much. (or increase the front tp) The next long sweeping exit ramp at 70+ will tell me pretty quickly.

Has anyone tried the rear strut tower brace from RSM Racing? If so, what year is your car and was the improvement worth the $$?

[JimD]

Chrome or no chrome, RSM turns me off with their pricing. Period.