PAUL T Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Plant Closures in order to shut people up about bankruptcy. FRANKFURT, Germany (Reuters) - General Motors Corp Chief Executive Rick Wagoner will soon announce plans to close four U.S. assembly plants, the Automotive News industry paper reported Monday, citing a "company insider." It said the move was part of an effort by the world's biggest carmaker to quiet Wall Street speculation about a possible bankruptcy. The paper quoted its source as saying the planned cutbacks would come in a "bold announcement" that should "cause a lot of people to shut up." GM (Research) was not immediately available for comment, but said it will have an announcement for employees and news media at 8:30 a.m. ET. It has lost nearly $4 billion this year and has said it will give details by the end of 2005 of its plan to cut at least 25,000 manufacturing jobs as part of a broader restructuring plan. "This is all rolling out to the original schedule," the company insider was quoted as saying. "It's carefully coordinated with the UAW (trade union) and other constituencies to avoid blowing the place up." The paper said it was not clear how many jobs will be eliminated or which plants would close. The shutdowns will not affect GM's future product plans, it added. Wagoner has committed to a series of plant closures and the elimination of nearly a quarter of GM's U.S. factory work force through 2008. GM has been grappling with high health-care and commodities costs, loss of U.S. market share to foreign rivals and slumping sales of high-margin sport utility vehicles whose popularity has dwindled of late due to high fuel prices. Wagoner said in June the proposed cuts would save the automaker $2.5 billion a year. But analysts worry about expenses associated with the cost cuts, and some estimates predict that early retirement and employee relocation costs could total up to $2 billion. Wagoner has said he plans to cut manufacturing capacity to match demand by 2008. Some experts believe The Lansing Craft Center, where GM builds the Chevrolet SSR, will likely be shut down because the convertible sport pickup has not sold very well and GM has idled the plant for several months in 2005. Two other plants likely to be shut down are the Doraville, Ga., plant, which builds GM's minivans, and an SUV plant in Janesville, Wis., analysts said. The new plant closures will add to three assembly plants that GM has already closed or stopped production at this year -- a car plant in Lansing, Mich., an SUV plant in Linden, N.J., and a van plant in Baltimore. ---------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnikelshpu Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 New York Times, Nov 21: "...Shares of GM (GM), a Dow component, rose 5 cents to $24.10. The auto maker will close nine assembly plants and three service and parts factories. and shed 30,000 jobs. The embattled auto maker previously had announced 25,000 of the job cuts..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBOYLE15 Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Just got a call from Cadillac dealer wife's 1999 SLS is finished. They gave us a Brand new dealer car as a loaner since Friday Black STS. Have to admit nice car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Boy, after coming back to this thread after not really ever reading it...I can see what Scotty was talking about. A few comments, from someone who just looked on. I like the reference to Kool-Aid. Funny -- that's what we say on the Chrysler minivan fan club forum I'm on when the media fawns all over another Japanese van. "They're drinking the Kool-Aid again." Honda's Odyssey scores 5 stars in side crash rating, AS THE FRONT DOOR POPS OPEN ON IMPACT. Nice. Countless Hondas have had transmission recalls as recent as one model year ago. Chrysler is still getting flack for their transmission problems from DECADES ago. Funny, nobody gives Honda any flack for recalling over a MILLION vehicles for faulty transmissions. Toyota Siennas with 3.0L engines have bigtime problems with oil sludge ruining the engines. Toyota tries to push the liability on the owner claiming proper oil changes weren't done. Yet, they continue to get praise for their "customer service" and "reliability" from the media. I think it's also funny that one can try to make the claim that the NUMBER ONE automaker in the world is "junk", and as proof, they provide speculation that they're about to fall to number TWO. Oooh! Have you ever finished 2nd before? You must have been "junk" that day. I guess you can say that declining sales means the product is junk, but anyone who thinks sales and sales alone are indicative of a product's quality or reliability obviously don't know anything about economics. There are way too many factors involved that produce the final sales figures to try to point out one factor and blame it. There are a TON of reasons GM is in financial trouble. Sales is one of them. High union fees are another, something Jap brands don't have to worry about. Financial mismanagement is probably another. The list could go on. Not one of those really matter to me...not one of those changes the wonderful service my GM cars have given to me. My parents have just bought an Acura MDX. They shopped that and the Cadillac SRX. They were going strongly for the SRX. What pushed them to the Acura? Price was the biggest concern. If we're going to talk sales, let's talk sales. Reliability didn't have a thing to do with this decision. In fact, if it did, they'd have gone Cadillac because they were the first owners of my '97 Seville and loved it (as I do). They could get more equipment in the MDX for a much better price, even with "employee pricing". That's a BIG reason domestic sales have fallen. Japanese brands can come in, assemble in America to get that warm/fuzzy feeling (but using imported parts), not pay big union fees, and undercut our own auto makers. I have even less respect for Japanese cars that are fully imported (like many Lexuses). If you want to sell them here, build them here, that's what I say. Anyway...my thoughts. I'm sure this will stir it up, but it will be my only comments on the issue. Stir it and run... Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 True...you can design and manufacture an excellent product, but a poor marketing job or technical support (customer service) will ruine sales. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBOYLE15 Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 You can add Water Pump to wife's 1999 SLS I went to dealer early today and they showed it to me. cost me only $50.00. This was about a $3500.00 job very dissapointed. Glad to see some really good discussion on GM problems. Hopefully GM will pull out and just build a better Product! Did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings but wanted to see some Honest discussion on General Motors problems. Bamkruptcy is a warning sign that something is wrong in which case you go back to the basics. Kool- Aide is reference to Jim Jones where he got all of his followers to drink posion. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Just announced: GM will lay off 30,000 workers, close 9 plants in North America and three service and parts factories. Wishful thinking aside, there's trouble in Detroit city folk. With hope, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 You can add Water Pump to wife's 1999 SLS I went to dealer early today and they showed it to me. cost me only $50.00. This was about a $3500.00 job very dissapointed. Glad to see some really good discussion on GM problems. Hopefully GM will pull out and just build a better Product! Did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings but wanted to see some Honest discussion on General Motors problems. Bamkruptcy is a warning sign that something is wrong in which case you go back to the basics. Kool- Aide is reference to Jim Jones where he got all of his followers to drink posion. Charlie What other service was performed? If that dealer is charging GM $3500 to R&R a waterpump, they should be called on the carpet. The pump cartrige is $70 and it takes 45 minutes to remove and replace the old pump... that should have been $180 - 200 at the very most. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 The pump cartrige is $70 and it takes 45 minutes to remove and replace the old pump... OR, you can use the "quick-change" method which skips the recommended step of draining the cooling system. Sure it makes a mess on the floor, but you'll have that pump swapped in 10 seconds! $3500?!? Absurd! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 You can add Water Pump to wife's 1999 SLS I went to dealer early today and they showed it to me. cost me only $50.00. This was about a $3500.00 job very dissapointed. You must be kidding -- $3500 for a water pump? As mentioned, the pump is a $60 part and is actually one of the EASIEST water pumps you'll ever change. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 I cannot imagine who in the world would pay $3500 to R & R a Northstar water pump. GM surely won't pay that for a warranty job and I doubt any other warranty co. would either. If infact that is true, they are surely bending someone over big time and I am in the wrong buisness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Regarding the financial implications of the rumored GM bankrupcy, does anybody know: A. Would bankrupcy affect the health and pension benefits, that is would retired GM employees be left high and dry without any benefits? B. Would the stock holders still own their stock which would be valued however the market values it? Just curious - any legal/financial types out there? Happiness is owning a Cadillac with no codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 A. Many things can happen but most likely GM would dump their pension liability on the PBGC who will guarantee "a portion" of the retirees pension. It is very complicated. All depends on how much your pension is and what age you are when the pension is terminated. PBGC does not take into account seniority or longetivity. Very senior employees just short of retirement take it in the shorts big time. Those already retired and over 65 will fare much better but likely still loose some of their pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 I think he had the case half leak done guys, he had a few drops of oil on the garage floor, if I recall. That is where the big money in that figure is... I stand corrected, the figure is broken out below Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBOYLE15 Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 I bring you up to date on the $3500 job Rack Master cylinder rear bushings cruise control switch water pump... the dealer noticed. 4 wheel alignment new fluids rental 4 days 1999 SLS 40k car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Sounds way high, I could build a car for that, GM PAYS this? You paid for $50 deductible and for the water pump? List prices are BS, don't quote list prices... These prices are from Rockauto $59 water pump $125 FOUR wheel alignment $283 ACDELCO Magnasteer Rack $25 Fluid $167 Master Cylinder $400 Rental 4 days at $100 (off their LOT) $20 Rear Bushings $1,079 Parts total (price to a schmuck like me, they get them less) $2,421 in LABOR and PROFIT $3,500 Total (how much was covered by GM under warranty?) I missed my calling Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBOYLE15 Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Half case leak was fixed LAST June. I asked the dealer costs and he said about $3500. Keep in mind they are talking list price. The rack alone lists for about $975.00 Master cylinder List about $160.00 Water pump list $75.00 Bushings about $20.00 List 4 wheel alignment coolant brake fluid Rental car $400.00 approx Labor rate $85.00 Some day I may list all repairs on this Gem as well as the other Gem 2001 DTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Regarding the financial implications of the rumored GM bankrupcy, does anybody know: A. Would bankrupcy affect the health and pension benefits, that is would retired GM employees be left high and dry without any benefits? B. Would the stock holders still own their stock which would be valued however the market values it? Just curious - any legal/financial types out there? A:) Ranger is largely correct, a circumstance not unusual on this forum! But, consider the information I presented in my original post: management is FAR better off. Gee, what a surprise! The sky, it seems, is dotted with golden parachutes. B:) Yes. Own it or sell it. On the bright side, CBOYLE15 is "heavy" on GM stock. For the life of me, I can't understand WHY. I have this strange habit of SELLING stocks that are on a downward movement. My original post was intended, in part, to alert stockholders to a possibly "cataclysmic" upcomming event in the market. I'm largely in cash, having sold sold all my winners and the one loser. After GM declares Chapter 11 (let's remember Bank of America said the GM bankruptcy was "inevitable," NOT "when" or "if") , there'll be a huge disruption in the market. A buying opportunity might ensue. Something to think about . . . . Regards, Warren P.S. Keep an eye on Sharper Image (NYSE: SHRP). There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Sounds way high, I could build a car for that, GM PAYS this? You paid for $50 deductible and for the water pump? List prices are BS, don't quote list prices... These prices are from Rockauto $59 water pump $125 FOUR wheel alignment $283 ACDELCO Magnasteer Rack $25 Fluid $167 Master Cylinder $400 Rental 4 days at $100 (off their LOT) $20 Rear Bushings $1,079 Parts total (price to a schmuck like me, they get them less) $2,421 in LABOR and PROFIT $3,500 Total (how much was covered by GM under warranty?) I missed my calling Fortunately, they don't pass this "$3,500" figure on to GM, my guess is GM picks up less than $500. It makes you happy, and normally brings owners of two Cadillacs back in for a new car when the time comes. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBOYLE15 Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Perhaps your right about the figure the service manager tossed at me. Maybe he wanted to impress me with how lucky we were to have bought the GM major guard warranty from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschunke Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 "A. Would bankrupcy affect the health and pension benefits, that is would retired GM employees be left high and dry without any benefits?" The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) takes over failed pensions. They pay about 30% or 3k max per month. Problem is PBGC is headed for bankruptcy itself. "B. Would the stock holders still own their stock which would be valued however the market values it?" Should bk really ensue, the common stock shares will be worthless. - $3500 sounds about right for a quote from the stealer. This is the very reason used Cadillacs are the best bargain around for folks like us who fix them ourselves. Dump those Caddys, just like most everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Perhaps your right about the figure the service manager tossed at me. Maybe he wanted to impress me with how lucky we were to have bought the GM major guard warranty from him. Well, I can understand the Service Manager having done that, but does that mean you should have swallowed it? More importantly, does that mean you should have reported it to us as a fact? Look, we're friends here and we are anxious to help out our fellow friends, but we depend on facts, NOT that other stuff. Tell us the straight poop and you'll find us lined up to help you. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBOYLE15 Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Since we had been going back and forth I thought you would be interested in the total outcome. Fact is this is what the Service manager advised when I picked it up! You can add $20.00 tip on to it if you like. Wating for his Christmas gift as well I am sure! My wife needs service when I am not around. She has to be able to just call the dealer for help. A few years ago they sent a guy out without a deville for us to use while they took the SLS in for repairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 My wife needs service when I am not around. Without regard to the rest of the post, which escaped me, I'm not sure I even want to comment on that! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Fact is this is what the Service manager advised when I picked it up! You can add $20.00 tip on to it if you like. Wating for his Christmas gift as well I am sure! CBOYLE, see my thread in your oil consumption issue regarding your dealer charging up to 4x the "correct" cost of a repair. It sounds like your dealer is a real crook, which probably isn't helping your situation at ALL. The fact that he's ASKING for a tip says to me that he's interested solely in his pockets rather than yours. It really makes me question the validity of ANY of the diagnosis he did to replace $3500's worth of parts on a 40k mile car. I have no doubt your '99 SLS had issues. But why did he do a 4-wheel alignment when he only replaced the REAR bushings? My dealer charges $69.99 for a 4-wheel alignment. This guy is marking everything up 2-5x over what you'd normall pay for it, even at a dealer. Reference Scotty's comments, I think your dealer is financing his Christmas with your wallet. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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