headliner compatibility

[rockfangd]

Hi All.

Could someone please tell me if the headliner is the same between the Eldorado (1997) and the Seville (1997)

I found a mint non sagging one at my local yard in a Eldo but have doubts they are the same.

If I still had my eldo I could use it for comparison but I dont. I realize it may be a foolish question but I am just curious how different they are

Thanks all

[Logan]

I doubt it....

There was at one time a cottage industry fixing sagging GM headliners. They would come and redo it in your driveway....kind of like PDR. Results were like brand new. 

You clean and scrape all the old material off the backing board. The foam backed fabric material is available in different colors....that and 3M spray. Search on Google for 'fix sagging GM headliner'. There may still be shops that fix them....maybe under $100. 

This assumes the backing board is still ok.....also new headliners can now make the visors look ratty. 

 

Youtube video...

 

[rockfangd]

Thank you.

I have done quite a few headliners, but this one has the Dealer installed moonroof in it and they really botched everything.

I am pretty certain that is why the headliner is damaged. The wind got between the layers and separated it. 

I have had several of this generation and this is the only one period with any sag. It is only sagged from behind the moonroof back.

The sunglass holder was all hacked up.(I replaced the whole thing with the moonroof console and switch)

But I also see the headliner in the Motor area is also botched. Not sure what I will find when I pull it down. That is why I was curious about replacing the whole thing with a proper oem one.

I dont care for moonroof. I have never really used it and the liner was sagging already when I bought the car

[rockfangd]

So today I decided to finally pull down the headliner. 

I am disgusted to say the least. Hard to believe a dealer install moonroof could be so horrible.

The original backer for the headliner is badly botched. It looks like the moonroof assembly is a large black unit that mounts from inside the roof.

The headliner material is secured to it. It seems to have a black foam sheet that is glued to it and the material is supposed to be glued to that.

I have never seen anything like it. It looks like  I cannot pull the headliner out as it is now not one whole assembly. I have no idea what to do here.

Maybe someone here has dealt with this before. Basically anywhere that the material was attached to the black part is sagging.

The parts still attached to the original backer are still perfectly attached. I must be the unit is too big to fit the original headliner so they had to cut the backer out as big as the unit (which is big) then they just glued the headliner to the unit.

So rather than the headliner being contoured like normal it is supposed to be flat against the bottom of the unit. The headliner material is like new that is hanging down. Still has its foam intact and all

This kills me because the car is near mint other than the headliner issue. Did I mention I dont like moonroofs

[rockfangd]

[rockfangd]

Update. I finished removing the headliner and found worse news. 

The original headliner is still attached to what is left of the backer. When the moonroof was installed it was put on right over the existing headliner material. I have to try to figure out a way to put a new material on. If I could find a Seville with a factory moonroof I wonder just how different the oem one is from the dealer add on one. 

Judging by how hacked up the sunglass holder was when just swapping out the console for the right one makes me wonder. 

more pics

[rockfangd]

Update, well not much of one.

No luck. 

There is one huge question that I cannot find the answer to

How much of a difference is there between the OEM moonroof and the Webasto unit.

What I am getting at is if I can get headliner that is designed for a OEM moonroof would it work in my case

[rockfangd]

Can someone please tell me if the Dealer installed moonroof would come up with the vin number.

I am trying hard to get somewhere here.

Guess this is what I should expect for a 20 year old car

[jackc]

I'd doubt that a dealer installed moonroof would wind up linked to a VIN number.

Back in the day, I had to deal with a headliner in a 75 Monte Carlo with a factory sunroof and it wasn't any better than what you're describing.  The material it used was the perforated vinyl that was common then, but none of the usual bows were used to hang it.  It was hooked under the trim bead for the hatch opening in the middle and stretched & glued to the sides, front, and back.  But it sounds even worse in your case since you're dealing with the foam-backed cloth that really has no stretch-strength of its own.

You're going to have to improvise this.  I'm thinking of a thin piece of wood paneling that you'd cut to fit with the appropriate openings and use as the backer for the foam cloth.  Screw or glue it to whatever you can find to hold it.  Or maybe a thin plastic sheet.  Another possibility might be to go back with a different, stronger material in the right color that you could cinch to the hatch opening and stretch to the outsides.  Or ???????.  Where there's a will there's a way.

 

[OldCadTech]

@rockfangd My 98 STS has a factory sunroof, I'll look at the RPO label and see what the RPO code is. 

But, in "the day" the parts department could look that information up by VIN, I'm not sure they can go back that far now.

[rockfangd]

Thanks.

What a headache.

Problem is I want to fix it the right way. Too darn picky. 

[OldCadTech]

@rockfangd

The RPO code is CF5

Hope that helps a little.

[Logan]

On www.car-part.com ....if I set up the search for 1994-1999 Deville.....I'm getting 4 pages of Deville headliners.

[rockfangd]

Thanks but it is for a Seville.

The Seville appears to be not so common

[Logan]

Um yeah....for me....I only count 44 of them for Seville. How many do you need? I see 2 within 40 miles from where I am. You may have to adjust your search settings to include all 1992-1997 Sevilles. 

You may have to recover the headliner....you likely will have to modify it to fit your aftermarket sun roof....but they are out there. 

You likely could make a Deville one work with some mods. It would be a better starting point than your original one. 

[rockfangd]

Thanks.

 

I found one that states it is Beechwood, not sure what that means though (have not checked that site yet)

[Logan]

I would not hold my breath trying to find one the same color....In the end I think you will have to get some headliner material as close as you can to your original color. 

GM is known for changing the shades of the interior colors on a yearly basis. There may be 3-4 versions of 'beige' over the life cycle of the car.

And....the interior parts are the first thing that get discontinued.

Getting the deeper 'sunroof' version of the hard board is what I think you should be trying to do. Then trim and modify as needed for your aftermarket sunroof....then put the new material on.

Just my 2 cents..  

[rockfangd]

That is exactly what I am trying to do. 

Having some luck with a manufacturer that buys surplus parts from the dealers so I am hoping to have one ordered by monday.

They kept wanting my vin but I had to convince them that the RPO for the moonroof is likely not on it and that I wanted it for that reason

[Logan]

Now your other post makes sense about the VIN #. All they can get from the VIN is the 'as built' factory information. The VIN will not show the aftermarket sun roof...even if installed by a GM dealer.

[KHE]

It might make sense to take the car to an auto upholstery/trim shop and have them evaluate it.  A trim shop would be experienced in repairing headliners and surely have faced these types of issues before.

A few years ago, I came close to buying a 1990 Brougham with the towing package and the only issue was a sagging headliner - I called the trim shop near me and they were very helpful.  They said if the existing backer was not ruined with the push pins, it could be recovered, otherwise a junkyard headliner would need to be used just to obtain an undamaged backer.  Seems like the price was about $200 to have them do the work.  I didn't buy the car so I didn't obtain any more information.

[rockfangd]

So I have some good news. New headliner came in today.

Color is like a mid tanish brown. shale was not available at all.

Comes complete with harness.

I am happy and feel I can live with the color. I think once installed I will like it.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will work. Only things I am worried about is the placement of the moonroof lining up with the opening

and the fitment of the headliner under the moonroof assembly.

I will be so grateful if it works out because the car is near mint other than the headliner. 

[rockfangd]

Well after alot of hard work the car is back together.

I got really lucky that it was a direct swap. I had no fitment issues at all. Just took my time.

I carefully brought it in through the right front door after removing the seat.

I know the color is not the same but at least I have a good backer now. If I ever dont like the color at least I can get it reupholstered.

It took me about 2 hours to hang it and hook everything up. Broke one of the push in clips at the C pillar so I had to make a run to the parts store.

I can officially say it is done right now. The complete console is switched out, there is no bulge from the hacked bracket for the console.

I even mounted the mic in the console for the hands free phone.

I topped it off with a wash and wax. Total cost was about 300.00 between the headliner and the donor Oem moonroof parts.

The moonroof works fine also.

Still not sure why it would not have been done right in the first place. Especially being everything was a direct swap.

[rockfangd]

What a blast this car has been with the new headliner installed.

I have never driven it more than I have this year. Think I have put about 2500 miles on it this season, about 6000 on my Deville (DD)

I am incredibly pleased with how it came out. Made this cherry one step closer to being mint.

I actually have done 2 headliners this year. I just replaced the one in my 1990 Chevy Scottsdale. (what a relic it is)

Was cake to do and find in comparison to the Seville too.

Been a successful summer