babylon_nl

2002 Deville Headgasket leak - Now what?

126 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, babylon_nl said:

haha I really feel stupid, it's great you take this effort of replying (safely i hope!) from your car.. Yes, we want all available seals and stuff we can get to replace, that's money wise peanuts. Jake made a list of items he can supply, the rest I will be ordering from rockauto, just not sure about the rack, have to still shop around for that. But i havent ordered yet, I'm awaiting Jake's offer for the total package he can supply, but this is the initial list:

From Jake:

Cylinder Head Stud Kit for Northstar V8 - full kit 
Oil Pan Gasket
Crankshaft Seal - front set 
Oil Filter 
Timing Chain Guide -  (original GM part, identical to Cloyes 95310)

 

 

This will be most of the rest of our most wanted list (rockauto)

Tensioner Pulley - source from Rockauto

 


Starter Motor -- Source from RockAuto

 


Fuel Filter - Source from RockAuto

 


Cylinder Head Bolt - Not needed if you purchase our head stud kit

 


Air Filter - Source from RockAuto

 


Hydraulic lines - source from Rockauto

 


Belts - Source from Rockauto

 

 

we didnt order anything yet, as i'm still awaiting Jake, but i'm making it difficult for him too, cuz i asked for the rack as well..

 

I'm seriously considering therapie haha, but i dont really have time as I need mail around for the car :paint2: hahaha

Replace the oil manifold, very important


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Here are some pics, most of these are from a 99 Deville. Yours may be a little different but the basics are the same.

caseseal4.jpg

caseseal3.jpg


THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Posted (edited)

I got maxed out on pic upload size, and I'm NOT paying photobuket a dime,,,,,

Be sure to check the crank bearings, or simply plan on replacing them. I haven't taken one apart with "mileage" that didn't need new crank bearings.

Cylinder Bore Taper - 0.100mm Max

Cylinder Bore Out of round - 0.100mm Max

Piston Clearance @ 41mm below Deck Face - 0.020-0.051mm

Edited by OldCadTech
babylon_nl and BodybyFisher like this

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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@OldCadTech with regard to the 2 photos you posted above, why do I get the same feeling from them as I get from this photo?, you know heart races, eyes widen :blink: stop teasing me with photos like that!

 

2000.jpg

OldCadTech likes this

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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LOL B) I like your pic lots better 

IF I could have gotten ALL the pretty pictures on it would have been MORE appealing and explanatory.

That is the case halves & oil pan in first photo, the second photo is the windage tray and the oil manifold.

BUT now, I noticed, your picture has all that too...

The therapy is WORKING :)

 

BodybyFisher likes this

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Haha, I think I like the color of aluminum....  lol

That is 7 of 9 from Star Trek Voyager, resistance is futile


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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hahaha.. mind you, the borg may be considered the Cadillac under the alien species... pure luxery and way ahead of our times :)

I'm up for a new head!!  And my car will need 2, we ran the tolerancies (thanksssss!!!) and didnt even bother to bring it to a specialist.. the seats are.. well.. actually they are not, they are missing, gone so to speak, by phone it's estimated a repair to the head will be roughly 800 euro's (say 1000 dollar).. and that's just the necessary work done, no extra's no further neweties..

I'm awaiting Jake's offer for the lumb-sum so we can start building again :)

@OldCadTech thank you again, we'll run those measures as well and get back with our findings, that's what we'll be doing till I hear from Jake I suppose :)

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No word from Jake yet, meanwhile I have an important question for you all...

2e6b5568-37f5-4b55-a1c2-6f336fb5ebfe.jpg

OldCadTech likes this

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Depends, newton metres or pounds feet?

LOL

 

babylon_nl likes this

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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@babylon_nl

I contacted Jake, he will be in touch with you shortly

babylon_nl likes this

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Why are you needing a cylinder head?

 

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@BodybyFisher - He did :) thanks!

@barczy01 - most important reason is the valve seats are next-to-gone.. trying to get some pictures of that,  Rebuilding the heads exceeds the price of the new heads by far (in facti it's almost double) and frankly, it gives me a much better feeling to know they're new, than to have them worked on.. I guess working on them will never make them as good as new, right? :)

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But the car did idle smooth . These engines almost never have valve issues. 

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3 minutes ago, barczy01 said:

But the car did idle smooth . These engines almost never have valve issues. 

It did... I dont know.. it's what i'm told.. It was also suggested that maybe the car has ran on propane in the past..that's very common around here, particulary on big engines..  but since there's no evidence at all to support that (in the car I mean, no traces of a propane tank or aditional piping and stuff), it was sugested that maybe engine itself was replaced in the past.. and with that, anything we know about the engine turns into a questionmark.. 

but you are right, it did idle smooth.. except for the first few seconds upon cold start...

I'll try and get some pictures of the valve seats...

 

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I am sure the seats are fine but it's up to you. Hey, it's only money. 

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I'm curious about what you're saying, as it was another friend who looked at the heads and he told me the seats were next to non-existant..  Now I really want to have pictures of 'm :)

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We had a member from Germany do the conversion and he DID inquire about the valve seats!!

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I am told propane combustion is much hotter than regular gas.. so it would make sense.. I see he's claiming an engine would last longer on propane, I dont know where he got that info, I know next to nothing about engines, but I know that if you find a low mileage propane car, it's a fraud (because the prope instalation and tax are considereable and should weigh to the amount of miles you're driving) and if you find a high mileage propane care, you dont want to touch it, because it's very likely to have problems soon.. 

My dad's 79 and 86 caprices ran perfectly fine on propane, but i guess they dont really compare to modern engines...

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What the heck...

WE NOTICED THAT YOU HAVE BEEN USING
PHOTOBUCKET FOR 3RD PARTY HOSTING

What is 3rd Party Hosting?

Photobucket defines 3rd party hosting as the action of embedding an image or photo onto another website. For example, using the <img> tag to embed or display a JPEG image from your Photobucket account on another website such as a forum, Etsy, eBay auction listings, a blog, etc. is definitively 3rd party hosting.

well, guess that's it for photobucket than hahaha.. sorry for the blank gaps that will inevitably come to my former postings :(

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Yep, photobucket is history.  I need to download all my photos and close my account i have no use for it now and $400 a year is outrageous

babylon_nl likes this

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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You serious man!? four hundred bucks a year... omg, i am renting a virtual private server with unlimited data and next to unlimited storage for 40,- a year.. i didnt even read that mail to be frank, I was actually done reading after the header that said 'some features will be disabled'.. bizar... I already was very anoyed cuz i had to dig thru a ton of commercials before i'd reach my pictures, but i figured well, since it serves a purpose, why not... but this is seriously messed up haha.. thanks for the info...

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CadillacJim covered the Photobucket issue here

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Bizar...

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So... new news today after holiday breaks and all...

@OldCadTech

we measured the folowing bore taper, as in the picture and to me it looks like:

cyl1: lower measure - 92.927, upper measure - 93.004, means taper is 0,077mm
cyl2: lower measure - 93.0007, upper measure - 93.003, means taper is 0,0023mm

Neither me nor my mechanic ever worked with this tool!

Rationalizing, it says 1 div. 0.005mm, so we asume one  click is 0.005mm, there are 50 clicks in one twist.

Cylinder a:
We come from (something)click 42.7 and go to (something+1)click 4, so we turned the wheel 7.3 clicks to go to 0, than another 4 clicks, a total of 11.3 clicks
that means the taper is 11.3x0.005mm= 0.0565mm

Cylinder b:
We come from (something) click 0.7 and go to (something) click 4, so we turned the wheel 3.3 clicks.
that means the taper is 3.3x0.005mm=.0.0165mm

I'm going crazy over this, how come these calculations are not equal, what am I doing wrong? It looks like it's within the 0.1mm tolerance.. but is it? Anybody? :)

2 cylinder bore taper small.jpg

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:unsure:

I think you are spot on. Hard to tell, and I'm not familiar with the tool either but it looks like "Cylinder A" was tapered a lot more than "Cylinder B"...

If you can post a pic of the tool and model number or a reference to their website I'll see if I can figure out the readings. 

babylon_nl likes this

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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