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93 Fleetwood Power draw Troubleshooting Help


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Hello Brand new to the form. I'm having problems with my battery draining during the night. i tested at the fuse box i don't know how accurate this is? But this is what i got #3 PWN ST 10.42  #30 HVAC 11.92  #29 RR CIG 0.04  #34 CCM 12.9  #28 FRT CIG 11.77  #27 D/INT LPS 11.36  #31 ABS 0.10 This test was done with the key out. Also did a parasivic draw test don't remember what  i got but it was like a 1.5 amps, also i don't know if when you pull the ccm fuse if everything is supposed to flatline or not? But when i pulled #28 frt cig and #34 CCM my meter 0.00ed out. the front cigarette light, Is because i chose to remove the lighter and replaced with a toggle switch using the lighter wires for keyed power.

I did this to run my custom accessory lights. don't know why this didn't work? I guess i will have to figure something elts out. Any ideas? Oh yea 1993 cadillac fleetwood brougham.

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Are you sure your battery is not bad?

You need to find out what circuit is drawing power.  You are not looking at voltage, you are looking for draw.   Let your system go to sleep, usually after about 10 minutes, it will settle down and you will see the draw drop.   Something is staying on, you pull each fuse and watch for the draw to drop.   You should also not see any spark when you pull the fuses, a spark will be a circuit that is active. 

If you have an aftermarket AMP in the car, its possible that its not turning off.

Check your glove compartment light to make sure its going out

Check your trunk light to make sure its going out, my sons trunk light was staying on and killing his battery.

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I don't think the front cig lighter is a keyed circuit. I think that orange wire is hot all the time. If you tie into that circuit you will be feeding voltage to circuits that normally would not have power when the key is off such as the lights. If you have voltage keeping a circuit "alive" it will never go to sleep. There are fused ignition accessory circuits you can "tie" into at the fuse block. Without a service manual to reference it will be tough to name a circuit to use.

After-market accessory wiring is the number one killer of batteries in the US :excl:

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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Okay i did bridge my meter between battery and cable and pull fuses. i don't get what you mean about feeding voltage to circuits.

i am taking voltage from there not feeding feeding. The lighter did not work without the key in that's why i chose to use that power

also it is toggled. new battery new alternator. after writing that yesterday i did re-wire switch directly to batt. i have disconnected  it many

times before and has never changed anything. my amp does shut off but i also pull my amp power cable from battery every time i turn off car.

at one time i had a trunk light that stayed on i took it out by unplugging the socket. i was suspect of anything i added to car so i removed everything i had done

and got no change. i do have a aftermarket alarm system that i am pretty sure is the cause but i have taken my car back to  car toys 4 times and they keep telling me there is nothing wrong with there install. i did not have this problem before they worked on my car. after dropping my car off, they called me asking how to get in the trunk. they some how fried my trunk pop relay. picked up my car turned on head lights door bell would ring non stop with headlight switch on. took it back they jest disconnected it and tied it up under dash told me it was just going out. asked around about that and was told they don't go out either they work or they dont.

so what i am trying to do is either find the problem and fix or find prof that they are at fault. also i keep my int/lps fuse out for pulling fuses so i can keep door open and keep car a sleep. so no int lights so i doubt thats a problem.

 

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To me this should be easy to find.  Did you say you are drawing 1.5 amps with your meter reading current draw at the battery?

Watching that draw, at 1.5 amps, disconnecting power to the alarm, head unit, and pulling fuses from all locations one by one should disclose what circuit is causing the drain.  In my Deville and Eldorado I have fuse centers under the hood, under the dash and in the trunk, make sure you are not forgetting anything.  There is no way that you wont be able to find it.  Even pull the big fuses under the hood, I have 60 amp fuses.

It sounds like its related to the alarm wiring, they knocked out the trunk release and headlights with door bell mix up.  You said this didnt happen before the alarm.  Something is not going to sleep, @OldCadTech was pointing out that they must have connected to a power circuit that is keeping a module from sleeping via some sort of back feed.  Trace every wire on the alarm and write down where they go.  

What did they disconnect and shove up under the dash, the door bell?  

 

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The fact that the lights-on reminder chime was sounding when the lights were turned on tells me that they probably tied into the light circuit to flash the lights when you arm and disarm the security system and to flash the lights when an unwanted entry occurs.

The fact that the trunk release relay was "fried" tells me that they probably tied into the trunk release to activate the alarm if someone opens the trunk.

Have the people at CarToys disconnect the power and ground circuit that THEY installed and see if your current draw goes away. Have them reconnect or replace ( if it's not working now ) your lights-on  reminder chime  while they're at it.

Did you have a problem with the factory security/keyless entry system or did you install the aftermarket security as a redundant system for added security?

Electric current is like water, it takes the path of least resistance and it will find a path to ground even if that path goes through another component. This is known as feeding or back feeding voltage, depending on the direction of current flow.

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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So i'm not really sure where the alarm is hidden. It is not working atm, i was thinking i might have done something to disable it before and cant remember.

I only drive the car during the summer. And only work on it in summer months due to i live in Washington. but i kinda remeber being told that the alarm taps into a courtesy light, and by doing so taps into the factory alarm. so if a handle is lifted the courtesy light will come on triggering the alarm. not sure if this is right or not. as far as the factory alarm there was never anything wrong with it.just needed to step up security. have a lot of things on and in my car, this is my show car. as far as the trunk being release being taped into um i dont think so i can open my trunk with the alarm on. i dont think car toys added that zone nore windows in the cheap *smurf* 600.00 dollar install only the doors they let me know after the install was done. the 600 bucks was to only install half my alarm and to do windows and trunk would cost me more. so im guessing they hooded up a pin switch under the hood and tapped into courtesy light, my doors have no trigger pins or anything lie that.

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21 hours ago, BodybyFisher said:

To me this should be easy to find.  Did you say you are drawing 1.5 amps with your meter reading current draw at the battery?

Watching that draw, at 1.5 amps, disconnecting power to the alarm, head unit, and pulling fuses from all locations one by one should disclose what circuit is causing the drain.  In my Deville and Eldorado I have fuse centers under the hood, under the dash and in the trunk, make sure you are not forgetting anything.  There is no way that you wont be able to find it.  Even pull the big fuses under the hood, I have 60 amp fuses.

It sounds like its related to the alarm wiring, they knocked out the trunk release and headlights with door bell mix up.  You said this didnt happen before the alarm.  Something is not going to sleep, @OldCadTech was pointing out that they must have connected to a power circuit that is keeping a module from sleeping via some sort of back feed.  Trace every wire on the alarm and write down where they go.  

What did they disconnect and shove up under the dash, the door bell?  

this was another question i had dose a 1993 fleetwood  have a trunk fuse box. cause if so my rear box has been removed. i did not check the engine bay box because i have done so in the past and have never found anything there. but i will try again to day. i also want to add ive had this problem on going for 3 years been threw 6 new battery's . as i said before i live in washington and only have a few months of good weather and no garage.so car gets bagged up and parked as soon as rain starts. this would be the reason things are not still fresh in my head

 

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just went and tested again. This time i only got 0.13 while doing a parasitic test. This time i started under the hood, when i pulled the ABS fuse my meter dropped to 0.01. then i continued into driver side dash box and got nothing there aside from pulling the CCM fuse. Side note, While in the cab pulling fuses when i got to the 3rd row of fuses and started pulling. My meter jumped up to as high as 0.38

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Is that the Ma or milliamp scale?

The highest you saw was .38 Ma or 380 milliamps if that was a milliamp scale. 

You had your leads plugged into AMPS?

What did you mean by "aside from pulling the CCM fuse".  CCM is central control module

When did the meter jump up to .38, when you plugged a fuse back in or when you pulled it out?  Do you recall what fuse it was?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

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20 minutes ago, BodybyFisher said:

Is that the Ma or milliamp scale?

The highest you saw was .38 Ma or 380 milliamps if that was a milliamp scale. 

You had your leads plugged into AMPS?

What did you mean by "aside from pulling the CCM fuse".  CCM is central control module

When did the meter jump up to .38, when you plugged a fuse back in or when you pulled it out?  Do you recall what fuse it was?

i was using amp meter turned to 10a and lead in the 10a dc. because yesterday i was getting 1.54 and i would pull the ccm fuse and my meter would 0.00 zero out.

i was told above that the cmm would just kill all power so to look ellts where first.

meter jumped up when i pulled a fuse and it started with # 38 Pwr Recal then after plugging back in about 40 sec's later it dropped back down.

but seemed to continue down that row #33 cluster #28 frt cig #23 trk rel #13 chime will test again in a few to see if i get something differnt

 

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I will let others comment on this but if you are on the 10 AMP scale, .38 equates to a draw of 3.8 amps.  That is a huge draw, if I am correct.  

So when you pulled the ABS fuse it dropped to .01 amps on the 10 amp scale, or 100 milliamps? 

Someone confirm my thinking. 

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

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Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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1 hour ago, BodybyFisher said:

I will let others comment on this but if you are on the 10 AMP scale, .38 equates to a draw of 3.8 amps.  That is a huge draw. 

So when you pulled the ABS fuse it dropped to .01 amps on the 10 amp scale, or 100 milliamps? 

Someone confirm my thinking. 

Okay back again. This time i walked out to the car the trunk and hood i left open. with the meter still connected i tested on the 10a setting on my meter, it was reading 0.01 I then opened my driver door. The meter shot up and was bouncing back and forth between 0.15 - 0.24 so this is my courtesy lights turning on but for some reason they didn't turn on, besides the point. I left the car alone for about 5 mins checked meter again and it was bouncing between 00.3 - 00.4 10A setting. I then Changed my meter over to 200m dca 135.1 I again pulled the ABS fuse and my meter droped down to 00.0

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Have you checked for codes?

Check and post your codes here, I am curious if you have any ABS codes.

I am not sure if my logic is correct above with the 3.8 amp draw. 

Lets see what @OldCadTech thinks

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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7 minutes ago, BodybyFisher said:

Have you checked for codes?

Check and post your codes here, I am curious if you have any ABS codes.

I am not sure if my logic is correct above with the 3.8 amp draw. 

Lets see what @OldCadTech thinks Id all so like to ad i visibly have a broken speed sensor line. that got caught up in the suspension.

 

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On a 10amp scale .38 amps is less than 1. It would be 380 miliamps 

Sounds to me like there are several systems that have been modified in some way.

Interior lamps

34 minutes ago, Fleetwood Slim said:

I then opened my driver door. The meter shot up and was bouncing back and forth between 0.15 - 0.24 so this is my courtesy lights turning on but for some reason they didn't turn on, besides the point.

This is exactly the point;

The drivers door told the BCM to wake up and turn the interior lights on, the interior lights did not come on. Why didn't they? If you open the refrigerator door does the light come on?

The speed sensor would set an ABS code. It would fail the self test and it should have an ABS light while driving.

 

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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I just laid down in bed, picked up my phone to post the same thing, its less than an amp, haha!!!  Whew, that was bugging me...

Now, what is a normal draw when the system is sleeping?

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I'M trying to remeber how to read codes and i will be back with them

8 minutes ago, OldCadTech said:

On a 10amp scale .38 amps is less than 1. It would be 380 miliamps 

Sounds to me like there are several systems that have been modified in some way.

Interior lamps

This is exactly the point;

The drivers door told the BCM to wake up and turn the interior lights on, the interior lights did not come on. Why didn't they? If you open the refrigerator door does the light come on?

The speed sensor would set an ABS code. It would fail the self test and it should have an ABS light while driving.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, BodybyFisher said:

Now, what is a normal draw when the system is sleeping?

I have slept since then but IIRC it was around 200mA

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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50 minutes ago, OldCadTech said:

On a 10amp scale .38 amps is less than 1. It would be 380 miliamps 

Sounds to me like there are several systems that have been modified in some way.

Interior lamps

This is exactly the point;

The drivers door told the BCM to wake up and turn the interior lights on, the interior lights did not come on. Why didn't they? If you open the refrigerator door does the light come on?

The speed sensor would set an ABS code. It would fail the self test and it should have an ABS light while driving.

 

 

52 minutes ago, OldCadTech said:

On a 10amp scale .38 amps is less than 1. It would be 380 miliamps 

Sounds to me like there are several systems that have been modified in some way.

Interior lamps

This is exactly the point;

The drivers door told the BCM to wake up and turn the interior lights on, the interior lights did not come on. Why didn't they? If you open the refrigerator door does the light come on?

The speed sensor would set an ABS code. It would fail the self test and it should have an ABS light while driving.

 

because i think the chart sticker is wrong and im thinking i was pulling a body fuse.

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OoO - The picture is still fuzzy :paint2: but I'm starting to get an idea of what is happening :scenic:- what kind of controller are you using? Are you using multi-color strips?A Load equalizer or Signal Stabilizer may be needed. A lot of the led lights have such low current draw that the signal the BCM is looking for never reaches the correct voltage and it requires an LED driver.

An example of this is replacing the factory turn signal bulbs and the flasher cycles rapidly.

My accessory LED lighting knowledge is rather limited, so you would be wise to talk to someone that installs these for a living or has done a LOT of them successfully.

I like the effect you are trying to create BUT Cadillacs' control systems are different than the norm and don't handle modification easily. Cadillac modules look for a specific value and/or values within a set range. When you add other accessories on top of that such as a security system, now the module is REALLY confused AND add to that a fuse block that is from another vehicle only compounds the difficulty of diagnosis.

Edited by OldCadTech

THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!!

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  1. the oem door and roof lights are led bulbs one color, i also have floor lights they are squares lets say 3x3 multi led one color no controllers for any of those i have. the doors have logo projectors no control. i have 2x single color no controller in rear spare tire carrier. and i have one rgb light strip not sure what controller it uses off the top of my head, in the trunk but all are wires directly to the battery and toggled all except the oem cab lights that are led bulbs
    5 minutes ago, OldCadTech said:

    OoO - The picture is still fuzzy :paint2: but I'm starting to get an idea of what is happening :scenic:- what kind of controller are you using? Are you using multi-color strips?A Load equalizer or Signal Stabilizer may be needed. A lot of the led lights have such low current draw that the signal the BCM is looking for never reaches the correct voltage and it requires an LED driver.

    An example of this is replacing the factory turn signal bulbs and the flasher cycles rapidly.

    My accessory LED lighting knowledge is rather limited, so you would be wise to talk to someone that installs these for a living or has done a LOT of them successfully.

    I like the effect you are trying to create BUT Cadillacs' control systems are different than the norm and don't handle modification easily. Cadillac modules look for a specific value and/or values within a set range. When you add other accessories on top of that such as a security system, now the module is REALLY confused AND add to that a fuse block that is from another vehicle only compounds the difficulty of diagnosis.

     

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