rockfangd

oil consumption

43 posts in this topic

Hi All. I know this topic has been brought up before, but I would like to get some opinions for my case.

My 2001 Eldorado goes through oil very quickly.

I have had and dealt with many northstars but seem to notice more consumption on early 2k engines.

I have put in at least 9 or 10 quarts of oil over the coarse of the last 6 months.

It seems every time I turn around it is off the stick.

I do not idle the engine for more than 5 minutes when it is really cold

I drive 50 miles a day on average.

Average speed is 65-70.

I avoid the city at all costs.

I used chevron 5w30 oil when I did the oil change. It was recommended highly.

This car does not get babied at all. Like I said it is not my first one. My 96 deville had over 200k on it and used about 1.5 quarts per oil change. And it had small seeps.

My 97 Seville uses about 2 quarts per oil change. No leaks, road trips only usually.

I was hoping it would have improved with the driving and miles I have put on it but it has not. I worry about damage to the Cats.

I had a friend with a 2001 Deville and it used alot of oil also. He got rid of it because he was worried about the reliability on road trips. He drove his like I drive mine. He bought a BMW same year and it uses very little oil for the amount of horsepower it puts out.

I am worried about taking a long trip also because I dont know if it will be worse and It might get too low.

I might add I never fill it to the full mark, only to the middle of the hatched section.

I know there is something you can do with the spark plugs to help the rings but I am not very comfortable with trying it.

I have tried Woots. Maybe I need to drive it in second gear for awhile to keep the Rpms up, but not sure if that is safe.

Are there any actual miracles in a bottle that I can add to the oil to help. I am assuming I have sticking rings.

Is using 10w30 maybe a better idea. Thats what my other 2 use but this one calls for 5w30.

Sorry for so many questions. I try to be as specific as possible with my threads.

Happy Snow for all you snow lovers


GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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I had that problem for awhile in the early 2000's with my 1997 ETC. It went from never having needed a quart to burning a quart every 400 miles in a couple of months; ask in a PM and I'll go there but not here. I solved the problem by changing where my car was serviced and getting two oil changes using 5W-30 Mobil 1. After that, it burned a quart every 2000 miles; probably not the level it was before but within a tolerable range. It got slowly better over time.

If you have stuck rings, the answer is to deal with that, not to use thicker oil, which may or may not reduce consumption but will likely make the root problem worse by reducing the amount of oil available at the source of the problem.


CTS-V_Dashboard.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Have you done the WOT procedure to clear out any carbon and exercise the rings? Babying these cars leads to stuck rings and increased oil consumption.

My wife is the primary driver of the '97 STS and I notice that it tends to use some oil but when I drive it, one of the first things I do is mash gas pedal until there is no more carbon blowing out of the tail pipes. Then I notice the oil consumption drops.


Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Rockfang, you probably have stuck rings with carbon. I have a 02' Deville that eats oil and I am not easy on the car on the highway. I use the car twice a year to head to FL and during the summer I load it up with half 20-50 and half 10w30 and it really slows consumption. The GM ring cleaning procedure might help but it's suck a nasty process and chemical that eats intake plenum seals it's really a temp fix. Switching the weight and oil might help slow it down. Any oil leaks?

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You might want to try Motor honey. Add it to the oil anytime. Just follow the directions. It will increase oil pressure a little, and help lubricate and unstick the rings. It will not remove the carbon, but it will help keep it from forming, so WOTs are still the best way to loosen up heavy carbon, and exercise the rings. I know GM does not recommend additives, but then again, there is no service interval for cleaning out my "bolt with a hole in it" either. When a car gets older, the rules change.

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I thought the 2000 MY Northstar engines with the redesigned pistons and rings were supposed to eliminate the stuck rings. My '05 Deville uses no oil - I change it once per year since I store it for the winter and like to put it away with fresh oil. The OLM is probably at 60% when I change it.


Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I never baby it. I have done several Woots. Has not changed. Maybe I will try mobil 1.


GM FAN FOREVER

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The most important part of the WOT is when the car is in 2nd gear, and is performing engine braking. That's then the rings start dancing on the pistons dislodging the carbon, and forming a good seal. Make sure you go from 70 to 30 a few times without using a brake pedal.

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Maybe I will try mobil 1.

I'm not sure what that will accomplish other than lightening your wallet...

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Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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rockfangd, you have just described my car with one exception, I do use mobil 1 5-30. I don't think that is going to help at all. Mine is a 99. I have never been accused of babying any car including this one. WOT, not lately, but many times in the past, with no change so don't see the point now. I just continue to feed it oil and it continues to make me happy every day.

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A member mentioned mobil 1 helped them. If there is a chance(not my luck) I would be willing to try it.


GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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From what people are saying here, it appears that a really good top-grade oil of 5W-30 grade is as good as Mobil 1 5W-30 for the purposes of more detergent and getting onto the pistons quickly when the car is started cold.

I had the GM ring treatment for my car. The TSB says to get it out of the cylinders before an hour has passed or the gunk will settle down into the rings again, making the car worse. The tech left it in my engine for 4.5 hours, according to the service manager.


CTS-V_Dashboard.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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The time period that is specified in the TSB is for the dealers' convenience. They don't want a service bay tied up overnight. The longer the solvent is left in the engine, the better it will dissolve the carbon. I performed this procedure on my STS about 8 years ago and spoke with the guru who used to frequent this board on this before I did the procedure.


Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Thanks for that information. The procedure had no discernible effect on oil consumption. For years I thought that the 4.5 hours was the reason.

Look for PM with particulars.


CTS-V_Dashboard.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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The time period that is specified in the TSB is for the dealers' convenience. They don't want a service bay tied up overnight. The longer the solvent is left in the engine, the better it will dissolve the carbon. I performed this procedure on my STS about 8 years ago and spoke with the guru who used to frequent this board on this before I did the procedure.

KHE, what was the reason for you doing it? Using oil? Did it help, and how long did you leave it in yours? Did guru suggest a time period?

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I did it because it was using oil. The guru told me to leave it in there overnight which I did. It helped a little bit with the oil usage.


Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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My '02 DHS consumes a quart of Mobil 1 5W-30 every 3,000 miles - mostly highway use and occasional periods of WOT. I think the most significant change was the higher tension rings introduced for 2004; my '07 is a 10,000 MPQ Northstar (estimated based on the change in dipstick level over 7500 miles).


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My '05 Deville doesn't use any oil - at least the low oil level message doesn't appear. I do change the oil every fall priot to storing it for the winter.


Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I think I might give it a try. My 06 4.4 uses no oil ever and I would bet it has low tension rings too. Sts has 230,000 miles however. I don't keep track of miles run before I need to add oil, but it is definitely excessive. I should have re-ringed it when I did the head gaskets, but didn't remember excessive oil usage. Can't say one way or the other truthfully.

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My 1997 ETC never needed oil until "something" plunged it into a 400 mpq funk. After a few months I moved to private servicing and the oil consumption dropped to 2000 mpq over two oil changes. I changed the oil every 6,000 miles (40-50% on the OLM) so I never needed to add oil again.

A few years later, in 2006, I got a Jasper exchange engine. It never burned a quart of oil until the day I sold the car in March of 2013.

I think anything over 2000 mpq is good to go. That's what any dealer, any make, will tell you. A Northstar that is documented at 1000 mpq or worse is good for warranty work.

I don't know what would cause a Northstar to burn a little oil after a head gasket job. With old iron engines, a slightly uneven clamping force or too much head bolt torque would distort the bores and cause oil burning, but the Northstar uses free-standing steel bores and aluminum heads which should minimize that effect. It's hard to re-torque head bolts on Northstars because they use torque-and-twist head bolts.


CTS-V_Dashboard.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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well tonight was finally warm enough for me to feel comfortable with doing the procedure.

I went from 35-80 or so

pulled it back down to 35, at least 10 times. By about the 8th time I smelled something a little different but it didnt last. So I dont know what it was.

It was too dark to see if it smoked any.

After I was done I kicked it back up and did my 25 mile ride home averaging 75mph.

I noticed something since I replaced all of the mounts, It feels alot better on acceleration and deceleration, and my voltage does not drop anymore under heavy load.

Fingers crossed. I will be changing the oil and filter sunday.


GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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I have some good news and a question.

I have noticed some different things since I performed the above.

The engine has more snap, it takes off better and sounds alot smoother.

The exhaust does not appear to smoke as much and it doesnt really smell like burnt oil at the moment.

But the weird one is that the exhaust has a different tone now. It has more of a rumble. I thought I damaged something but tonight when I did my oil change I thoroughly inspected the exhaust system and it is in perfect shape.

It is not loud or anything just has more of a rumble. any way to explain that? I believe I am not the only one who has noticed this after doing the procedure.

I am pretty meticulous so I can usually definately tell a difference. Overall I must say it is running 100 times better than the day I bought this car.

This caddy was used and abused but in a bad way. good thing I have high hopes


GM FAN FOREVER

Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile

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well tonight was finally warm enough for me to feel comfortable with doing the procedure.

What does the ambient temperature have to do with flogging the car? As long as the road is not slippery, the engine does not know the difference.


Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Subject: Information on Engine Oil Consumption Guidelines

Models: 2009 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Gasoline-Powered Light Duty Trucks Under 8500 LB GVW (Including Saturn)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This bulletin is being revised to update the warranty information on vehicles and add model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-01-011E (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and internal moving parts from wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. When a piston moves down its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of this oil layer is consumed in the combustion process. As a result, varying rates of oil consumption are accepted as normal in all engines.

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi).


Important: This rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under warranty, that are driven in a non-aggressive manner and maintained in accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule, with less than 58,000 km (36,000 mi), or driven at legal speeds in an unloaded (for trucks) condition.

Important: This rate does not apply to vehicles that are driven in an aggressive manner, at high RPM, high speeds, or in a loaded condition (for trucks). Oil consumption for vehicles driven under these conditions will be more.

Many factors can affect a customer's concern with oil consumption. Driving habits and vehicle maintenance vary from owner to owner. Thoroughly evaluate each case before deciding whether the vehicle in question has abnormal engine oil consumption.

Gasket and External Leaks
Inspect the oil pan and engine covers for leakage due to over-tightened, damaged, or out of place gaskets. Inspect oil lines and fittings for signs of leakage.

Improper Reading of the Oil Level Indicator (Dipstick)
Verify that the dipstick tube is fully seated in the block. When checking the oil level, make sure the dipstick is wiped clean before taking an oil level reading and fully depress the dipstick until the shoulder bottoms out on the dipstick tube. The dipstick should be the proper part number for the engine/vehicle that is being checked.

Notice: Operating your vehicle with an oil level that is below the minimum level indicated on the engine oil dipstick can result in severe engine damage. Repairs resulting from operating an engine with insufficient oil are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

Important: Refer to Owner Manual in SI for checking and adding engine oil.

Not Waiting Long Enough After Running Engine to Check Oil Level
Some engines require more time than others for the oil to drain back into the crankcase. To assure a sufficient amount of oil has drained back to the crankcase, and an accurate reading can be obtained, the vehicle should be allowed to sit for at least 15 minutes, after the engine has been shut off, before taking an oil level reading. In order to ensure accurate results, the temperature of the oil should be close to the same temperature as the last time the oil level was checked.

Important: This does not apply to 2006-2009 Corvette Z06 equipped with the 7.0L LS7 and the 2009 Corvette ZR-1 with the 6.2L LS9 engines (dry sump). Follow the instructions in the Owner Manual for checking the oil in this application.

Improper Oil Fill after an Oil Change
Following an oil change, verify that the proper amount and type of oil was put in the engine and that the oil level on the dipstick is not above the full mark or below the add marks. Refer to the Owner Manual or Service Manual for information on recommended oil quantity, viscosity, and quality.

Aggressive Driving, High Speed or High RPM Driving
Aggressive driving and/or continuous driving at high speeds/high RPMs will increase oil consumption. Because this may not always be an everyday occurrence, it is hard to determine exactly how much the oil economy will be affected.

A higher rate of oil consumption is normal for vehicles equipped with manual transmissions that are driven aggressively. By "aggressive," we mean operation at high RPM (3,000 RPM to redline), with frequent use of engine braking (using the engine to slow the vehicle). Vehicles that are driven aggressively may consume engine oil at a rate of up to 0.946 L (1 quart) every 805 km (500 mi). This is normal for a vehicle that is driven aggressively. No repair is necessary. This characteristic does, however, require the owner to check the engine oil level at sufficiently frequent intervals, especially when driving aggressively, to assure the oil level remains within the recommended operating range. As the Owner’s Manual recommends, you should check the oil level every time you get fuel.

Towing or Heavy Usage
Towing a trailer will increase oil consumption and may cause oil consumption to fall below the normal accepted rate referenced in this bulletin for an unloaded vehicle in a personal use application. Large frontal area trailers will further increase the work required from the engine, especially at highway speeds, and thus increases the rate of oil consumption.

Crankcase Ventilation System
Verify that the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system is operating properly. Blockages, restrictions, or damage to the PCV system can result in increased oil use.

Oil Dilution (Fuel and Water)
On vehicles that are usually driven short distances, less than 8 km (5 mi), especially in colder weather, unburned fuel and condensation generated from cold engine operation may not get hot enough to evaporate out of the oil. When this occurs, the dipstick may indicate that the oil level is over-full. Subsequent driving on a trip of sufficient length to enable normal engine operating temperature for 30 minutes or more, in order to vaporize excess moisture and fuel, may give the customer the impression of excessive oil consumption.

Engine Temperature
If an engine is run at overheated temperatures (see Owner's Manual or Service Manual) for more than brief periods, oil will oxidize at a faster than normal rate. In addition, gaskets may distort, piston rings may stick, and excessive wear may result. Verify that all cooling system components are in proper working order.

Engine Wear
Piston scuffing, excessive piston-to-wall clearance, tapered or out of round cylinders, worn, damaged or improperly installed valve guides, seals and piston rings will all cause an increase in oil consumption.

Measurement of Oil Consumption


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...

The engine has more snap, it takes off better and sounds alot smoother.

The exhaust does not appear to smoke as much and it doesnt really smell like burnt oil at the moment.

But the weird one is that the exhaust has a different tone now. It has more of a rumble. I thought I damaged something but tonight when I did my oil change I thoroughly inspected the exhaust system and it is in perfect shape.

It is not loud or anything just has more of a rumble. any way to explain that?...

There are three things that I can think of.

Exhaust note: Running the car hard would light up the catalytic converter really well, and it might have cleared out some obstruction from deposits; likewise but less likely for the mufflers because they are in the rear and don't heat up enough to do much.

Running better: You probably de-carbonized the combustion chambers and piston crowns to some extent, possibly completely.

No exhaust smoke or smell: You apparently did un-stick the piston rings to some extent.


CTS-V_Dashboard.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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