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'97 Deville shutting off on it's own


Seanmannino

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Hi all, I am having an issue with my baby. I noticed that it appears to happen when the car is warm, and going down the street she just dies. I used to attempt to get over to the side of the road but noticed that if I put her in Nueteral, and start her up se starts up just fine and is on her way for a little bit longer the only code that I am pulling is a P0101. Which is the MAF Sensor. I've not replaced this yet but am wondering what else you guys and gals might think is going on? It usually smells like burning oil when I get it home but I have checked it and it's full and I have not seen/noticed any leaks of oil.

What are the thoughts on this before I go crazy and spend tons of money on this issue, or take it to Caddy and have them look into it...

My mechanic also states that he's not able to "identify" the issue as well.

Sean M.

1997 Cadillac DeVille

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I doubt it's the MAF sensor. What you can do is disconnect it and it will go into a default mode if you suspect the MAF. I would put a fuel pressure tester on the rail, I suspect a fuel pump.

Your gonna need a lower bearing case reseal for the oil leak.

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The fuel pump relay is a $5 throw-away part that is the most likely cause of sudden stall, followed by normal start-up. But you should see P0231 (Fuel Pump Feedback Circuit Low Voltage) HISTORY for a few weeks whenever this happens.

Are you reading the codes from the DIC? If you are using a code reader, you should know that most of the inexpensive (under $200) code readers just read the emissions-related codes.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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What really leaks on the Northstar engines with time and miles is the oil manifold plate. It is between the oil pan and the lower crankcase half. The case half seal gets all the bad rap but most of the oil that leaks from the case half is really a seep that will rarely leak to the ground. The oil manifold plate will leak to the ground since it has pressurized oil passages in it.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Hey all, thank you all so much for your help. Where is the Fuel pump relay at? I have looked in my book and it's not listed anywhere.

I haven't gotten out to do anything else to her except pull the codes from her.

PCM P0101 Current

PCM P0404 History

PCM P1599 History

IPC B2711 Current

PZM B0533 History

And that is all she is showing The P0101 (MAF Sensor code) shows only when the car is being driven and it shifts hard and sets that code. the P0404 is for the EGR valve that I need to get replaced. the P1599 is telling me the car has recently stalled. Could the IPC B2711 be causing the issue? I am getting the car mnay not restart message but I am not sure if this would have anyhting to do with it since it does restart right after.

Sean M.

1997 Cadillac DeVille

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CURRENT
P0101 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Performance
B2711 PASSKey Open/Shorted Pellet After Good Key

HISTORY
P0404 Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Open Position Performance
P1599 Engine Stall or Near Stall Detected
B0533 Fuel Sensor Open/Shorted To B+

I think that the B2711 may be a smoking gun here. It may be the contacts to the pellet in your key worn down. Try a new key and see if the B2711 goes away.

There is another worrisome code, the B0533. It's a gas gauge sensor and wouldn't cause a stall, but it means that you have a bad connection in the wiring harness to the fuel tank, probably a connector.

The P0404 probably means that it's time to clean out the EGR hoses and valves.

You know the MAF code. It probably means that you have some dust or lint in the MAF or the throttle body needs cleaning out.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Jim that's the odd thing here. I have a new key that was made by a dealer and it works just fine, but it's throwing that code in there. The old key still works as well. Either way I am still getting that code, I wonder though if I use the old set of keys if it would still want to shut down? Might try that out tomorrow and see what happens from there. Thank you! What I really need to do is concentrate on one code at a time fix that issue and then move on to the next one...

Sean M.

1997 Cadillac DeVille

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Take the key back and have them look at the code, and tell them about the stalling. If the new key has the right pellet, then you may need the contacts inside the ignition changed.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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The contacts in the ignition lock cylinder should only have an impact when starting the engine. Once the engine is started, the PCM does not look at the key pellet resistance.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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The contacts in the ignition lock cylinder should only have an impact when starting the engine. Once the engine is started, the PCM does not look at the key pellet resistance.

KHE. Are You absolutely sure about that?

My first Eldo -00 threw the codes at any time during a ride. Never shut down but told me the engine may not start again.

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The contacts in the ignition lock cylinder should only have an impact when starting the engine. Once the engine is started, the PCM does not look at the key pellet resistance.

KHE. Are You absolutely sure about that?

My first Eldo -00 threw the codes at any time during a ride. Never shut down but told me the engine may not start again.

It would set the code as you describe and diaplay the message "ENGINE MAY NOT RESTART" but I do not believe it would kill the engine. One way to test it is to unplug the lock cylinder PASS connector with the engine running and see if it dies.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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I'm sure that KHE is correct. If the PCM let a pellet disconnect shut down the engine, it would be a safety issue.

But that means that we don't have a code that would implicate something that would cause stalling. The EGR could make it run a little rough and such. The MAF code could indicate that there is something blocking the throttle body and that could cause stalling.

But one thing that can cause stalling and not throw codes is a bad fuel pump connector.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I believe KHE is correct it just disables the actual starter itself. Whe the car stalls is it a clean cut off or a chuggle and stall?

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Sometimes a bad fuel pump can just shut down the engine without warning, yet setting an unrelated code like a MAF sensor. Does the car die out after the fuel pump just delivered a large quantity of fuel, then when an additional demand for fuel is needed, it stalls? Or does it stall out on idle or steady acceleration?

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Then again, if you clear all the codes, and the security code is thrown whenever the car stalls, it can be a signal loss in the pcm. I like the idea of running the car with the CEL on so the car runs with defaults. See if it stalls then, and if the security code appears. Check and clear codes after every stall to keep track of what else is going on.

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Sometimes a bad fuel pump can just shut down the engine without warning, yet setting an unrelated code like a MAF sensor. Does the car die out after the fuel pump just delivered a large quantity of fuel, then when an additional demand for fuel is needed, it stalls? Or does it stall out on idle or steady acceleration?

It stalls out during idle, usually when slowing down from highway speeds or over 40 mph. I drove her tonight with the original set of keys and it threw that the car may not restart message but no other issues and it stayed running the entire time... I am at a complete loss lol not sure what is really going on with her. Thanks all!

Sean M.

1997 Cadillac DeVille

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I don't think that the may-not-restart messages are related to the stalling. The MAF sensor, maybe.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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