97 Deville Overheating

[igotaseed]

I just brought a '97 D'elegance yesterday for $1,000 in Maryland. It overheats almost immediately. Every time I drive it the temperature shoots up pretty fast around 244F in about 5-10 minutes or so. What did I get myself into? I think I got got. Oh well. What are some fixes? I dumped $135, for a battery, $240 for MDTags, $10 for tool kit to put in battery and tags, $ 368 for 1st and last months insurance. As well as the $1,000 for the car. I'm felling stubborn. I want to make it work. I refuse to just have wasted almost $2,000 in less than 24hrs!

[cdgrinci]

Check for a stuck (closed) thermostat, a plugged radiator or a non-functional water pump. Unless you are dealing with a blown head-gasket, it can probably be fixed for a relatively small amount of money.

[adallak]

Welcome to caddyinfo.com!

If you are lucky, it could be a plugged purge line at the coolant tank. See if you have flow when the engine is cool.

If you are very unlucky, you have got blown headgaskets. The repair is as costly as three Deviles you just bought.

[rockfangd]

given the condition of the car 1000 could be a good deal even with blown headgasket. This isnt a cavalier or another lower model. It is a Cadillac, and a deelegance at that. They are very nice cars and perform very well. If I bought one for 1000 I would expect to have to do repairs.

Welcome To Caddyinfo.

I agree with the above.

Also check the coolant level.

[Cadillac Jim]

The first thing that I would do is have the coolant check for combustion by-products (or have a cooling system pressure test) to eliminate - or verify - the head gaskets. The coolant test is best for a first check because leaks in the radiator, hoses, hose clamps, etc. are pressure leaks too and the pressure test is best once all external leaks are sealed up.

If the head gaskets are good, there is a short check-list: low coolant, coolant must be at least 50-50 (and not more than 70% antifreeze), thermostat by-pass (the small hose that hooks to the coolant tank near the top toward the front of the car) should be open (with a cold car, disconnect it at the coolant tank and start the engine; it should flow just a little), the water pump belt and tensioner (not the serpentine belt, but a small V-belt on the front driver's side of the engine), leaves or other obstruction of the radiator (look between the radiator and the A/C condenser), fans (they both should turn on at low speed with the A/C on), etc. Make sure that all the belts and hoses are tight and free of leaks. Note that a clogged heater core can cause occasional overheating, and when you see that the radiator is probably clogged to some extent, too.

If you do have a head gasket problem (and, the $1K price indicates that the seller knows of an expensive repair, and the transmission seems OK), and if you plan to drive the car for at least two or three years, going ahead and getting the head gasket done may be the right thing for you to do - if you have the money. Note that I drive a 1997 Eldorado and plan to for years, and I always do top-of-the-line maintenance on my car and will continue to do so as long as I own it, with will be at least three or four more years, or until I can't resist a used CTS-V or some such.

You should check the OBD codes (see link in my signature block) to see what the car's computer sees as any other problems. If you see tons of codes, clear them and drive the car to see what comes back. Also, do a bounce test to check the shocks and struts, and evaluate the brakes and tires. All this will help you evaluate what you are looking at before you can take the car on a carefree cross-country trip with the family.

If you don't have the money for a head gasket repair, or you bought the car to fix up and sell, then it's a project car for someone else who wants to drive it.

[igotaseed]

Ok guys, thanks for welcoming me in. I started with the purge line. I pulled it from the coolant tank while the engine was idling. no coolant was dripping from it. So I started to trace the line. I need some pliers to reach the hose that's after the thin purge line that runs atop the engine, maybe that or the thin purge line itself is clogged.

Then I found something major.....I really shouldve looked at the car more thoroughly before purchase......what ever belt that is to the right side of the engine(if you are in from of it) is popped....the the small top most wheel to that belt over there on the right is warped and looks like the belt melted on it...the really thick coolant line that runs on top over the radiator remained really hot from me driving it three hours ago....

So thats where i am...

[Texas Jim]

That's the water pump belt and the tensioner pulley

[JohnnyG]

Those two items need to be fixed first of course, let's hope those issues didn't cause more serious damage. Don't blow air or force a wire back into the plugged line which could push any obstruction back into the engine block. Remove the line, remove the hollow bolt where the line connects to the engine and clean it out on a bench.

[igotaseed]

Im a rookie under the hood. To get to that belt and replace that pulley wheel, is that something I should have a mechanic do?

[adallak]

Hopefully you'll be fine after the suggested fixes. BTW, you can do those repairs yourself. Taking a Cadillac to a mechanic or a dealer every time you have some issues will drain your bank account pretty fast. If it does not overheat after repairs, change the motor oil. Overheated oil is not good anymore.

[rockfangd]

you have definately found a issue that explains the problem. They are not hard to change at all. Excellent catch. I really hope that is the only problem.

[igotaseed]

Thanks fellas. The store opes up @ 0730 and Ill be there prompt. I'll let you know how it goes.

[KHE]

The purge line is not flowing because the water pump is not turning. Fix that and then check the purge line.

It sounds like the water pump tensioner bearing failed and caused the belt to heat up which ruined the pulley on the crankshaft. You will need a tensioner bearing, water pump belt, and camshaft pulley. The camshaft pulley requires a power steering pulley puller to remove it. DO NOT attempt to beat it off with a hammer or you will damage the camshaft. The new pulley must be installed with an installer or a metric bolt with a stack of washers to install the pulley. Check the water pump to make sure it turns freely and is not bound up.

An auto parts store can order the tensioner bearing which will be much cheaper than replacing the entire tensioner.

[airmike]

the parts store will likely have a puller in their rent/loan a tool program, so no need to buy that.

[BodybyFisher]

DO NOT bang the pulley on the camshaft with a hammer, you will damage the camshaft

[Cadillac Jim]

Make sure that the water pump turns. If it is frozen, you will need to replace that too. It takes a special tool to unscrew it from the crossover casting that you may be able to borrow from one or more Caddyinfo members.

[donandmax]

I just brought a '97 D'elegance yesterday for $1,000 in Maryland. It overheats almost immediately. Every time I drive it the temperature shoots up pretty fast around 244F in about 5-10 minutes or so. What did I get myself into? I think I got got. Oh well. What are some fixes? I dumped $135, for a battery, $240 for MDTags, $10 for tool kit to put in battery and tags, $ 368 for 1st and last months insurance. As well as the $1,000 for the car. I'm felling stubborn. I want to make it work. I refuse to just have wasted almost $2,000 in less than 24hrs!

I just brought a '97 D'elegance yesterday for $1,000 in Maryland. It overheats almost immediately. Every time I drive it the temperature shoots up pretty fast around 244F in about 5-10 minutes or so. What did I get myself into? I think I got got. Oh well. What are some fixes? I dumped $135, for a battery, $240 for MDTags, $10 for tool kit to put in battery and tags, $ 368 for 1st and last months insurance. As well as the $1,000 for the car. I'm felling stubborn. I want to make it work. I refuse to just have wasted almost $2,000 in less than 24hrs!

A woman on another Cadillac site had a 98 Deville.. She loves the car although she has of this date put $8,000 in repairs in it. I'm not quite that far yet but Ive got a half a dozen codes showing plus the tranny is slipping at take off. Welcome to the club. Just remember old caddies are not for old men as I have found out its not your daddies Deville. The NS engine is very complicated and foreign to me. A friend of mine took 4 hours to replace the pos battery cable. Why ? Because the starter is under the intake manifiold cover. I just pd. $270.00 in labor only to have my alternator replaced. A job I used to be able to do myself in 30 minutes. Why ? Check out where its at !! Good luck with your Cadillac my friend..

[KHE]

I just brought a '97 D'elegance yesterday for $1,000 in Maryland. It overheats almost immediately. Every time I drive it the temperature shoots up pretty fast around 244F in about 5-10 minutes or so. What did I get myself into? I think I got got. Oh well. What are some fixes? I dumped $135, for a battery, $240 for MDTags, $10 for tool kit to put in battery and tags, $ 368 for 1st and last months insurance. As well as the $1,000 for the car. I'm felling stubborn. I want to make it work. I refuse to just have wasted almost $2,000 in less than 24hrs!

I just brought a '97 D'elegance yesterday for $1,000 in Maryland. It overheats almost immediately. Every time I drive it the temperature shoots up pretty fast around 244F in about 5-10 minutes or so. What did I get myself into? I think I got got. Oh well. What are some fixes? I dumped $135, for a battery, $240 for MDTags, $10 for tool kit to put in battery and tags, $ 368 for 1st and last months insurance. As well as the $1,000 for the car. I'm felling stubborn. I want to make it work. I refuse to just have wasted almost $2,000 in less than 24hrs!

A woman on another Cadillac site had a 98 Deville.. She loves the car although she has of this date put $8,000 in repairs in it. I'm not quite that far yet but Ive got a half a dozen codes showing plus the tranny is slipping at take off. Welcome to the club. Just remember old caddies are not for old men as I have found out its not your daddies Deville. The NS engine is very complicated and foreign to me. A friend of mine took 4 hours to replace the pos battery cable. Why ? Because the starter is under the intake manifiold cover. I just pd. $270.00 in labor only to have my alternator replaced. A job I used to be able to do myself in 30 minutes. Why ? Check out where its at !! Good luck with your Cadillac my friend..

Removing and installing the intake manifold is a 45 minute job. After doing it once, it can be done in 30 minutes. No coolant in the manifold and the gaskets are reusable. What did your friend do for the other 3-1/4 hours???

[BodybyFisher]

Anyone into wine? Can you taste the difference between a $10 gallon of Gallo and a $50 bottle of Montrachet? Some people would never or refuse to pay so much, as the thought is ridiculous, to pay so much, a bottle of wine. Me, a bottle or two of Montrachet with my wife is heaven (not that I can afford it). But its a treat once in a while.

I really don't understand the "critics" of the world. The cynics, the glass is half empty types, the complainers, the guy who brags about buying a bottle of wine in the port to avoid paying $6.00 a glass in the bar aboard the cruise he is paying $4000 for. One of the types I dispise is the type who is driving a 95 and he complains that GM @&$ because they didnt use a stainless steel for the fuel filler pipe and it rusted out 17 years later. These are the types that forget that this car probably sold for $45,000 not $125,000. Its not good enough that the muffler system is stainless steel. They want more and they *smurf*. They think there is free lunch,, and that you get away from a new car payment by driving an old car. they are even stupider driving an old car that will need repairs as soon as the sun comes up when they can't do the work themselves, a recipe for needing deep pockets. Some get it, some dont and they complain, *smurf* and moan.

If like the wine above you dont get that you are driving a terrific car, a treat, a safe, luxurious, powerful, predictable vehicle that WILL need repairs and at increasing rate over time until the repairs come in such succession that you need to wave the white flag and throw in the towel and junk it, unless you do your own repairs, or have a Cadillac experienced mechanic and deep pockets, my advice is to sigh off caddyinfo, because we cant help you, and pretty soon WON'T help you, step away from the computer, go out, put a forsale sign on the car, and visit your local car dealer, there are some terrific buys out there with low interest rates, but to continue to dump, complain, "BE REAL", "raise red flags for other assumed unsuspecting owners under the guise of looking out for them", is a waste of time. Get yourself into a nice Hyundai and drive that garbage for awhile and maybe you will come back and maybe you will understand. In this case, we see a so called "mechanic" taking 4 hours to change a positive battery cable, my Dad would say, "He wouldn't make a PATCH on a mechanic's AZZ", but the owner bases his OPINION on an INCOMPETANT "mechanic", and spews BS to the public. This kind of knee jerk, I don't have the FACTS, but the POLICE acted stupidly ignorant behavior has become extremely prevalent in todays society as many are no longer deep thinkers but complainers, victims, finger pointers and they don't analyze, they react and believe ignorant buffoons, I see it everyday.

Cars are not investments, they to many are hobbies, a love, illogical and if you want to keep something that you love, it is going to cost money and it may become illogical. Life is to short to moan about your possessions, think appliance honda, hyundai, kia, and enjoy your life. Me, Ill be blowing by you in my Cadillac

[Texas Jim]

Sorry... I justr couldn't help it...

.

.

[Cadillac Jim]

"The optimist says the glass is half full and the pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer looks at them both and says the glass is twice as big as it needs to be". (Credit EDN)

I bought my first Cadillac new in October 1997 and have not quite brought myself to parting with it, although I came close to it last year over an STS-V or CTS-V. I decided to keep my 1997 ETC after contemplating what would happen to "my baby" after I changed cars. I've maintained my car like it was new in its first year ever since I bought it and it has returned the favor with peerless performance, reliability, and, increasingly, complements from strangers.

I'm too old to do much DIY work anymore so I do use a trusted mechanic, and I'm not afraid to go and find another if a good reason presents itself (burnout, big eyes to get into the motor, aggressive opportunism, etc.) but good maintenance, parking in a garage at night, and a lead foot combine to give me a Cadillac with very low maintenance, and a nice-to-drive 300 hp sleeper, which I'll admit is probably better suited for my temperament than a squirrel magnet. Nearly all my cars, with the notable exception of a 427 Corvette, have been sleepers. In Southern California where I bought the car, the knowledgeable knew what an ETC was and I got a lot of respect. On the East Coast, everybody thinks it's a big, tired old V6, and I've had 20-something housewives in their Hondas try to kick sand in my face(!!!).

We've had people who traded their Cadillac for a new econobox come back and crow about their economic coup - at which I personally asked them to compare the difference in gas with their car payment, pointed out that paying to drive an econobox is not a good personal alternative to driving any Cadillac (one of the reasons that I bought my car was to make my L.A. commutes less stressful), and I closed with an old Limerick (There was once a young man from Boston...).

To get to the point,

• You get what you pay for. An older Cadillac can be a bargain if you have the wherewithal to keep it in good condition.
  
• This is a Cadillac enthusiast and support site.
  
• We have a lot of highly competent support people here that are ready to jump into help out just about anyone if they can.
  

[Cadillac Jim]

... Ive got a half a dozen codes showing plus the tranny is slipping at take off. ... The NS engine is very complicated and foreign to me. A friend of mine took 4 hours to replace the pos battery cable. Why ? Because the starter is under the intake manifiold cover. I just pd. $270.00 in labor only to have my alternator replaced. A job I used to be able to do myself in 30 minutes. ...

The 4T80 transmission used in FWD Northstars is just about bulletproof and is known to go well over 200,000 miles in normal use. I had mine flushed with Dexron VI because the newer transmission fluid more than doubles the life of the transmission as well as improves shifting, particularly with sophisticated adaptive PCM's like Cadillac uses. Early failure causes include towing, flagrant abuse like slamming into gear at high RPM, running with low or high transmission fluid levels, or ignoring reasonable maintenance like changing the fluid in the event of transmission overheating or ignoring transmission OBD trouble codes for long periods. Repair is no more difficult or expensive than other four-speed FWD transmissions.

The Northstar engine is less complicated than older engines because it has no distributor, an oil pump driven off the crankshaft, and directly driven valve gear with no push rods or rocker arms. The parts count is actually quite low for a high-performance all-aluminum V8. The success of this engine from 1993 through 2008 and its recognized leadership in engine concepts is legendary. Mechanical repairs are quite simple compared to, say, a Chevrolet 350. All the sensors on the Northstar are inexpensive and simple to replace. Because of the OBD system, diagnosis is far simpler with a Northstar than with older systems that don't have OBD.

Getting to the starter under the intake manifold is a lot easier than getting to a starter mounted behind the engine on the bell housing, in case you've not done both jobs. The worst problem in changing the positive battery cable is getting to the bolt on the car's main power bus, which is under the Maxifuse block behind the left strut tower; the cable runs across the car under the radiator behind the radiator support. If you have the car on stands, or better on a rack, this is not so hard. And, having a third battery cable directly to the alternator armature is a brilliant way to kill a myriad of electrical gremlins, particularly on aging cars. Having the ground cable as two cables, one to the engine and one to the chassis, eliminates the need for an engine ground strap and again kills a myriad of electrical gremlins.

The alternator is mounted in the air stream under the car to avoid immersing it in high under-hood temperatures. This is important because alternator capacity decreases rapidly with temperature on any car because of the physics of iron and copper inherent in the generator physics. With the car on stands or on a rack, the alternator is quite easy to get to for maintenance or replacement. If you paid $270 in labor to replace it, change mechanics.

[BodybyFisher]

Hey Jim, we have not spoken since you renovated your suspension, how are you enjoying it?

[Cadillac Jim]

I have neglected taking time to do the post on my car forum, unfortunately. I'm very much enjoying having the ride and handling back to the way it was when it was new. Monroe says to change the shocks and struts every 50,000 miles, and I did it at over 160,000 miles. It still passed the bounce test and drove and handled "fine" but as I have said recently, you need to decide what you want to drive when you make maintenance decisions.

Other than the shocks and struts themselves, and obvious rubber parts like the spring seats and the strut bearings, the only wear item that emerged was the tie rod ends. The inch or so of slack in my steering that I had noticed for the last several years is gone.

I also have new ultra-high-performance tires, Michelin Pilot Sport Plus. The combination, along with the low-mileage Jasper engine and 100% Dexron VI in the tranny, is that the car is better than ever, after almost 15 years. Except the mufflers, of course - and I have no intention of replacing my Borla XS straight-through "mufflers." I get too many stares, grins, knowing looks, etc. to change that "just chillin'" bass sound at start and idle. And, my wife likes it too. Not that she's heard it bark when on the cam, though.

Let's take this over to my car blog. It's been too long anyway. Watch for a new post by me. Link:

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=41966entry207292

[igotaseed]

I got the pulley, tensioner, and belt. Now I have to change the oil. I'm reading on transmissions flushes. Necessary or not, or just change filter?