CoupeDTS Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 My compressor wasnt turning on in my fleetwood so I started troubleshooting. I took off the sensor by the rear axle and took it apart. It has an optical sensor in it that sees a rotor turned by the arm as to when the car needs air or needs less air. Everything is sealed really really well and the electronics are of course encased in epoxy. So unless that optical sensor failed Id say that sensor is good. Plus people dont have problems with them from what Ive seen. Next I checked the compressor. Running 12v straight to it it worked fine. THe compressor relay was getting proper power but the signal wire that trips the relay I assume it comes from that level sensor it wasnt grounded. I assume that wire will be grounded to kick on the compressor. Moving the level sensor arm all over doesnt trigger a ground. I cant find any wiring diagrams on the air system. There are 5 wires that go to the level sensor and I think 9 to the compressor, some of those are for releasing air and trouble light. Im trying to diagnose if that sensor is bad. It has 12v going to it I know from checking the wiring harness. These are hard to find so I want to make sure thats the problem. All fuses are good. If worse comes to worse I can run that ground wire to a switch in the cabin with a pressure gauge on the hose and air it up manually. * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 There is a relay in the Trunk Compartment Relay center No. 2 labeled ELC RELAY that you need to check. Also, there is an ELC FUSE, 10 Amp, in the Trunk Compartment Fuse Block, and an ELC Circuit Breaker , 30 Amp, in the Maxifuse Block. If you have RSS (RPO F45), you need to check the fuse IGN 0-BODY, 10 Amp, in the turnk compartment fuse block, and two 10 Amp fuses in the trunk compartment fuse bloc labeled RSS FUSE. There are some connectors to the rear struts from the compressor if you have RSS. Run the OBD codes and post them here and that will tell us whether or not any sensors are offline or whatever. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted August 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 No codes. I dont have a fuse box in the trunk this is a RWD 96 fleetwood. Got any info on the air ride in these? Only thing I can find is the Level Ride maxi fuse 30 amp under the hood. * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 No codes. I dont have a fuse box in the trunk this is a RWD 96 fleetwood. Got any info on the air ride in these? Only thing I can find is the Level Ride maxi fuse 30 amp under the hood. LOL You should mention it is 96 FLEETWOOD with 5.7 l engine every time, because most of members will assume it is a Northstar equipped Cadillac. I was told there is a ground attached to a hinge of trunk lid. Check that out as well. There might be something wrong with body computer which is in the trunk as well (as far as I know). The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 There is a relay mounted near the compressor. Many times, that is the problem. When you ran 12v directly to the compressor, did you bypass the relay? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted August 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 No codes. I dont have a fuse box in the trunk this is a RWD 96 fleetwood. Got any info on the air ride in these? Only thing I can find is the Level Ride maxi fuse 30 amp under the hood. LOL You should mention it is 96 FLEETWOOD with 5.7 l engine every time, because most of members will assume it is a Northstar equipped Cadillac. I was told there is a ground attached to a hinge of trunk lid. Check that out as well. There might be something wrong with body computer which is in the trunk as well (as far as I know). Ill look into that. The door locks and radio do some weird things sometimes which scares me about the bcm. I cant put the front cig fuse in because the radio wont shut off when I leave the car and the door locks sometimes lock after I put the car in park instead of the other way around. There is a relay mounted near the compressor. Many times, that is the problem. When you ran 12v directly to the compressor, did you bypass the relay? Yes I bypassed the relay and the compressor worked. The relay was getting proper power but the switched wire that comes from the level sensor should ground at the sensor to trigger the relay and its not grounding. Ill try to follow some of those wires on the level sensor * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Modules themselves almost never go bad without a cause, such as connecting jumper cables backwards. I would check some fuses; often one fuse supplies power to the contacts of a relay and another supplies power to the coil, or to the module that grounds the coil. Strange things happening all over the car are a sure symptom of a bad battery or battery cable connection, or battery or engine ground. I would start by pulling the battery, having it load tested, and cleaning both battery cables. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Coupe, PM me your email address and I'll send you the pages from the service manual on the Electronic Level Control System. From your description, it sounds like the level sensor is bad but go through the troubleshooting procedure before throwing a sensor at it. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted August 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Coupe, PM me your email address and I'll send you the pages from the service manual on the Electronic Level Control System. From your description, it sounds like the level sensor is bad but go through the troubleshooting procedure before throwing a sensor at it. PM sent, thanks!! I followed the wires from the sensor and they went into the body below the back seat so I didnt find any that went into the trunk for a ground. I did find a ALC fuse, possibly automatic level control, it was good though and I didnt expect it to be bad since the sensor was getting power. Someone mentioned grounding the yellow wire but that one has 12v on it so I didnt do that. I stopped by the stealership today just to price one of these things. $550! I wonder how many they sell LOL. Im really thinking its the optical sensor in that thing. I will test it all out though and I think Ive located some used ones so hopefully thats the problem. Thanks guys. * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted August 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Ok so problem solved. Thanks to KHE that is exactly what I was looking for adallak was correct there was a ground that made its way up to the trunk lid arm but that was all good. The sensor tested out ok so next they send you to the relay to test that. I tested the relay before and the relay was fine. I tested the harness as said in the manual and the harness tested fine too but still didnt work. So it says either the relay is bad or a bad connection. I took a fan relay (same thing) and plugged that in and nothing While trying to unplug that relay the compressor was kicking on. So I thought the original relay was good like I tested but the connection is bad. I plugged the original relay back in and the compressor kicked on. So its looking like a bad connection at the relay. So problem, partially, fixed. After the system airs up I can watch the back end take 10 seconds to go right back down. Ive replaced all the line and shocks in the back and I know those seal good and I can hear air leaking by the compressor. So hopefully its just the connection for the hose to compressor and not seals on the compressor or regulator. Ill have to yank it back out and get some soapy water to find that problem. So KHE you saved me $50, thats how much I found one of those sensors for. Now that guy is pissed cuz he pulled that part and now I dont need it. woops Im also curious how I can make that relay connection connect better... * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 As you can see, caddyinfo is a valuable resource. Consider becoming a supporting member with some of that $50 you saved! There are benefits, no ads, bigger photos, etc, plus you contribute to supporting this great resource. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 The relay contacts with the wiring harness are OK if clean and tight. Inside the relay, well, if that's not good then you need a new relay. There are only two or three types of relays and they aren't expensive. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 CoupeDTS, You needthis set. Well worth the money. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Still not working today I cleaned the relay contacts and another harness by the compressor with contact cleaner and it still wont turn on today. Im going to have to do some more trouble shooting. I still think its something with that sensor, maybe its harness is dirty I dont know. * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 CoupeDTS, You needthis set. Well worth the money. im very interested. Is that the whole set it doesnt say? Does 2 books cover everything? * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 CoupeDTS, You needthis set. Well worth the money. im very interested. Is that the whole set it doesnt say? Does 2 books cover everything? These are actually questions for the seller, but I believe it is the price for a set which looks like new and will cover everything. Do not let it go. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Its off the market * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Do a search on eBay and get another. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Do a search on eBay and get another. He bought it. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Do a search on eBay and get another. He bought it. Oh. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted August 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Good find thanks adallak * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Ok so problem solved. Thanks to KHE that is exactly what I was looking for adallak was correct there was a ground that made its way up to the trunk lid arm but that was all good. The sensor tested out ok so next they send you to the relay to test that. I tested the relay before and the relay was fine. I tested the harness as said in the manual and the harness tested fine too but still didnt work. So it says either the relay is bad or a bad connection. I took a fan relay (same thing) and plugged that in and nothing While trying to unplug that relay the compressor was kicking on. So I thought the original relay was good like I tested but the connection is bad. I plugged the original relay back in and the compressor kicked on. So its looking like a bad connection at the relay. So problem, partially, fixed. After the system airs up I can watch the back end take 10 seconds to go right back down. Ive replaced all the line and shocks in the back and I know those seal good and I can hear air leaking by the compressor. So hopefully its just the connection for the hose to compressor and not seals on the compressor or regulator. Ill have to yank it back out and get some soapy water to find that problem. So KHE you saved me $50, thats how much I found one of those sensors for. Now that guy is pissed cuz he pulled that part and now I dont need it. woops Im also curious how I can make that relay connection connect better... There is a terminal repair kit the shop manual references. Other than thet, you might try to build up the lugs on the relay with solder to make them thicker. If the compressor is leaking and it runs excessively, it can damage the relay. The compressor can be rebuilt - The head assembly is availible separately (or at least it used to be) as well as the compressor motor and exhaust solenoid. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I tried bending the relay prongs a little to see if they would catch better but still nothing. Its definately not the relay, Ive tried 3 of them now. This weekend I even swapped out that level sensor with a buddys and still nothing. So not the relay, not the compressor, not the sensor, not the fuses, so looks like its a connection or bad wire somewhere. Really didnt want that to be the case but Ill have to track down the problem. Ill disconnect and check every wire that goes from the front to back of the car for this system and see which one isnt working. If they all check out then its connections. If its the relay connection Im thinking of just buying those aftermarket 40 amp relays that come with plugs and just wire one of those in. * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Ok worked on it again today. The yellow wire off the relay goes to the sensor and when the sensor detects the car is too low it grounds out that yellow wire. Grounding out that yellow wire by the sensor didnt kick on the compressor. Grounding out that yellow wire right off the relay and another connection up by the compressor turned on the compressor. So somewhere between the compressor and the sensor that wire got cut or worn through. It goes into the cab and then who knows where. Instead of tracing that 1 wire I just ran a new wire replacing that yellow wire from the sensor up to the relay and it works perfectly now. It airs up and holds and releases air when weight is let off. So its fixed. Thanks everyone * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 ..... Glad you got it all figured out and fixed. I know you are happy now.... it feels so good to fix a stubborn problem... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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