2012 Model year

[JimD]

....its a new generation of people that can afford these things and they think this is what people want.

If the "they" is the automakers, you are pointing a finger at the wrong group. It has nothing to do with "what people want". There are many new car buyers who would prefer a 4,000 lb passenger car Interstate cruiser but the automakers cannot build them and stay in business.

With the federal EPA holding a Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) sledgehammer over the industry, there is NO WAY Cadillac, or anyone else can have a 300+ HP, 4,000 lb passenger car in their product mix UNLESS they expect to sell less than some small (unprofitable) number of units. The MPG physics won't work.

In the USA and North America, we have dodged this size/weight vs MPG issue for decades. When I spent time in Europe and Africa in the 1960's, the first reality that jumped out of the fog was "small cars".

Bottom line. If you need/want a 'full size' passenger car, buy it soon and budget to keep it on the road.

[Chris]

This source suggests the XTS will be in Dealer showrooms next Summer, along with the ATS:

http://www.newsok.com/bc-gm-product-det/article/feed/265411?custom_click=pod_headline_usnational-news

Akerson wants to boost sales of luxury cars, and next summer will launch two new Cadillacs: the XTS and an unnamed compact. "They're not going to blow the doors off," he said, "but they will be very competitive."

The full-size XTS will replace the DTS and STS; the ATS is a small sedan and will be built in Lansing.

Cadillac is key to the future GM has plotted for itself. Of its four remaining brands, Akerson wants just two to be sold on a global basis: Cadillac and Chevy.

GM just announced that they will spend $117M to upgrade Oshawa assembly to build the XTS "in the first half of next year". This article came out last week: http://www.wheels.ca/article/799180 Good news, as I believe that plant was ranked #1 in North America not too long ago (not sure if things have changed!).

[BUICK11]

This really stinks. Purchased my first caddy in 1969, Coupe Deville, 1974 and 1976 Coupe Deville 1978 Seville and on and on and on. Now no more Highway cruiser?? Their may be a Lincoln MKS Ecoboost in our future. They costs less and the resale stinks. But may be worth a try. We need to buy this year (Tax purposes) Do not want to wait until spring of next year.

Goverment Motors has lost their mind!

Sorry for the rant!

[Wildcard]

you can bet the rich politicians will have a nice big car regardless. limos ect. i cant belave the deville/dts is no longer going to be made. first the town car now the deville. not every one is a under 6ft tall 170 pound and under person.

[BUICK11]

Yesterday we test drove the 2012 Lincoln MKS Turbobost. Not for us! Harsh ride and trunk not easy to access. I think the 19 inch low profile tires are a poor choice for the MKS. Today we will test drive and seriously price a 2011 Platinum DTS.

Man what a mess looking for a full size cruiser!

[cdgrinci]

For all those worried that Cadillac is abandoning the full size vehicle; let it be known that the XTS is going to be larger/longer than the show-car that was shown at the car show. I believe the vehicle that is introduced will be fairly close to the size of the DTS. And while Cadillac has said that the XTS is to be the replacement for the DTS and the STS, I wouldn't take that for gospel; the XTS is more of a DTS replacement, the CTS is going to get larger and be a more suitable STS replacement and the ATS is going to replace the CTS (size-wise).

[BUICK11]

That makes more sense. Unfortunate they are unable to get them out this year.

[KHE]

If the "they" is the automakers, you are pointing a finger at the wrong group. It has nothing to do with "what people want". There are many new car buyers who would prefer a 4,000 lb passenger car Interstate cruiser but the automakers cannot build them and stay in business.

With the federal EPA holding a Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) sledgehammer over the industry, there is NO WAY Cadillac, or anyone else can have a 300+ HP, 4,000 lb passenger car in their product mix UNLESS they expect to sell less than some small (unprofitable) number of units. The MPG physics won't work.

Time to remove some of the EPA's power. Write your representatives and senators. You can bet they will still have big cars....

[cdgrinci]

Just announced: Cadillac Converj (as the ELR) has been green-lighted. Based off the Chevy Volt, this should give Cadillac some credits so that it will still be able to produce those larger vehicles (as well as the "V" models) that people still want.

[JimD]

Just announced: Cadillac Converj (as the ELR) has been green-lighted. Based off the Chevy Volt, this should give Cadillac some credits so that it will still be able to produce those larger vehicles (as well as the "V" models) that people still want.

Time will tell but I would not count on those credits becoming reality anytime soon.

Chevrolet Volt sales are dismal at best and downright frightening for GM management. I have yet to see a Volt on the road. And, I fail to see why Cadillac buyers would go for a Converj when Chevrolet buyers are ignoring the Volt.

Much has been written and here is but one example;

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/8450-chevy-volt-sales-plummet-as-the-electric-car-market-slumps

[BUICK11]

I read that in very cold climates the use of the heater which is 100% electric shortens the range quite a bit. Our goverment has gone crazy and the EPA is nuts. Write your representative and get involved. Lets not turn this post into politics. That will just ruin the exchange if information!

[Bruce Nunnally]

I am very excited about the Voltec platform, and the Converj now ELR. That could fit right in my driveway to offset the STS-V fuel economy

[JimD]

I read that in very cold climates the use of the heater which is 100% electric shortens the range quite a bit. Our goverment has gone crazy and the EPA is nuts. Write your representative and get involved. Lets not turn this post into politics. That will just ruin the exchange if information!

I'm "all in" for the exchange of information. But there is no way to duck the political aspect of government mandated automobile fuel economy standards developed by elected politicians and appointed bureaucrats. The proposed numbers are here;

http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Press+Releases/2011/President+Obama+Announces+Historic+54.5+mpg+Fuel+Efficiency+Standard

This has to be the new standard for an unrealistic pipe-dream on the part of a one-term resident of the casa blanca. Change we can belive in indeed.

Take this to the bank; some future administration and congress will recognize that attacking the cars and light duty trucks only is a recipe for fatalities. Forcing the automakers to offer only 2,500 pound vehicles for operation on the highways populated by 80,000 pound (or more) OTR trucks is madness.

[airmike]

I can't imagine a Cadillac of that category! Since when are econo box buyers going near a caddy store? or vise versa. I should think book stores might as well start selling tennis raquets. Oxymoron

I was looking for a volt one day and stumbled across my xlr-v RIGHT

[JohnnyG]

Chevrolet Volt sales are dismal at best and downright frightening for GM management. I have yet to see a Volt on the road. And, I fail to see why Cadillac buyers would go for a Converj when Chevrolet buyers are ignoring the Volt.

I read a story a while back that partly explains why Volt sales are dismal. It seems that dealerships are titling the vehicles themselves, so they can claim the govt. tax credit, therefore the end buyer is ending up with a "used" car and no rebate. Greed rears its ugly head again.

It is also recieving bad press as any American challenger to the Prius would. I have never read anywhere that the Prius batteries are heavy, yet lo and behold, the first thing I read about the Volt is that your carrying around a "fully loaded freezer" worth of weight in the batteries. They are undoubtedly nearly as heavy as those in the Prius.

Anyway, and back on topic, I just got a card from my Caddy dealer saying that the XTS will begin production in the spring of 2012. The picture of the XTS Platinum Concept looks pretty good. The only thing that sets off alarms for me is the chopped off rear end, reminding me of the Avalon/Lexus. The picture was pretty poor, so I hope it looks better in person.

[JohnnyG]

Oh, getting back to the Volt for a second. GM screwed up on the charging station. They are asking up to $3000.00 for the 240V unit, PLUS Installation! I could install this myself with my eyes closed, but it's scaring buyers away. In my opinion, this should have been included in the price of the car, or at least a dealer incentive.

[Texas Jim]

Oh, getting back to the Volt for a second. GM screwed up on the charging station. They are asking up to $3000.00 for the 240V unit, PLUS Installation! I could install this myself with my eyes closed, but it's scaring buyers away. In my opinion, this should have been included in the price of the car, or at least a dealer incentive.

JohnnyG...

Am I understanding this right???

If I go buy a VOLT and bring it home...

I can't charge the batteries unless I go buy the $3,000 dollar CHARGING STATION?????

[JimD]

The Volt comes standard with a 120 Volt battery charging arrangement which can take up to 10 hours to completely recharge depending on battery condition and temperature. Standard wall socket setup.

The 240 Volt battery charger setup would require some modification to the car (so it can be charged from either 120 volts or 240 volts) plus a wall outlet for the plug in similar to your electric range or clothes dryer. Charging time using 240 volts is approximatley 4 hours.

The $3,000 is scandalous!

[Texas Jim]

The Volt comes standard with a 120 Volt battery charging arrangement which can take up to 10 hours to completely recharge depending on battery condition and temperature. Standard wall socket setup.

The 240 Volt battery charger setup would require some modification to the car (so it can be charged from either 120 volts or 240 volts) plus a wall outlet for the plug in similar to your electric range or clothes dryer. Charging time using 240 volts is approximatley 4 hours.

The $3,000 is scandalous!

It's worse than that, but I can't talk like that here...

I know electricity is still cheaper than gasoline, (I THINK)... but has anyone ever figured out how much it costs to recharge a hybrid if it has to have a full charge every night??

And what about the added Greenhouse Emissions from the coal fired power plants that that make the Electricity to recharge it WITH...that supposedly contribute to global warming??

And what about the added mining for the raw materials to make the big ol' batteries that they use??

Just curious...

[JimD]

It's not politically correct to be asking that kind of questions!

A loss obvious cost is the development of the 'new' technology required to squeeze even a 50 mile range from a package of lithium-ion cells. And you have already paid that bill. Read this one:

http://www.anl.gov/Media_Center/News/2011/news110110.html

[Texas Jim]

It's not politically correct to be asking that kind of questions!

A loss obvious cost is the development of the 'new' technology required to squeeze even a 50 mile range from a package of lithium-ion cells. And you have already paid that bill. Read this one:

http://www.anl.gov/M...news110110.html

SO........almost 15 years of TAXPAYER FUNDED research went into the development of the lithium ion battery in the Volt.

Then there is this little tidbit....

A total of $1.5 billion in stimulus grants went to several companies last year—including A123 Systems, Johnson Controls and Compact Power, an LG-Chem subsidiary—to build battery plants in the U.S. (A full list of the grants is available online.)

And then there is this...

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary

____________________________________________________________________________

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE August 5, 2009 President Obama Announces $2.4 Billion in Grants to Accelerate the Manufacturing and Deployment of the Next Generation of U.S. Batteries and Electric Vehicles

Recovery Act will fund 48 new advanced battery and electric drive components manufacturing and electric drive vehicle deployment projects in over 20 states

Elkhart, Indiana – Further accelerating the manufacturing and deployment of electric vehicles, batteries, and components here in America, and creating tens of thousands of new jobs, President Obama today announced 48 new advanced battery and electric drive projects that will receive $2.4 billion in funding under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. These projects, selected through a highly competitive process by the Department of Energy, will accelerate the development of U.S. manufacturing capacity for batteries and electric drive components as well as the deployment of electric drive vehicles, helping to establish American leadership in creating the next generation of advanced vehicles.

Bold emphasis mine...

SO...even with all the taxpayer funded stuff almost GIVEN to them... they still can't build the dang battery without ANOTHER 1.6 BILLION MORE taxpayer dollars...

[JohnnyG]

First of all, thanks JimD for mentioning the included 110V charger, I forgot about that. Secondly, I couldn't find anything on the web about the cost of the 240V charger for the volt, though I did find that a 240V charger for a Nissan Leaf is about $2000.00, so I'm in the ballpark with the chevy part (dealer preperation, taxes and license included). And don't forget the permit to install from your local electrical inspector.

To answer your question Texas Jim, the Volt requires 12 to 13 KWH to fully charge, so depending on your cost per KWH, you can calculate the cost per 30-40 mile drive (heater off of course, prob air off too).

Finally you mention the environmental impact of producing the batteries for the Volt. They hopefully are more environmentally friendly than the NMH batteries in the Prius, so let me just talk about the Prius batteries for a second. From an environmental standpoint, it is better to own a Hummer H2 than a Prius.

The nickel for the batteries is generally mined in Canada. The area around that Nickel mine is completely dead for a five mile radius, nothing will grow there. The nickel is then transported to russia for refining (no permits here)so add the fuel for that. The Nickel is then shipped to China where the plates are formed and the batteries assembled (more fuel for shipping). Finally the batteries are sent to Japan for installation into the Prius (more shipping). There are no US built Prius cars, they all come from Japan. So finally the completed car is shipped to the US, so add some more fuel for that trip. In the end, a delivered Prius is so far in the environmental hole by the time it reaches the end user, it will never have a negative impact on the environment, but it will get 40 mpg.

Political correctness at its finest!

[Texas Jim]

First of all, thanks JimD for mentioning the included 110V charger, I forgot about that. Secondly, I couldn't find anything on the web about the cost of the 240V charger for the volt, though I did find that a 240V charger for a Nissan Leaf is about $2000.00, so I'm in the ballpark with the chevy part (dealer preperation, taxes and license included). And don't forget the permit to install from your local electrical inspector.

To answer your question Texas Jim, the Volt requires 12 to 13 KWH to fully charge, so depending on your cost per KWH, you can calculate the cost per 30-40 mile drive (heater off of course, prob air off too).

Finally you mention the environmental impact of producing the batteries for the Volt. They hopefully are more environmentally friendly than the NMH batteries in the Prius, so let me just talk about the Prius batteries for a second. From an environmental standpoint, it is better to own a Hummer H2 than a Prius.

The nickel for the batteries is generally mined in Canada. The area around that Nickel mine is completely dead for a five mile radius, nothing will grow there. The nickel is then transported to russia for refining (no permits here)so add the fuel for that. The Nickel is then shipped to China where the plates are formed and the batteries assembled (more fuel for shipping). Finally the batteries are sent to Japan for installation into the Prius (more shipping). There are no US built Prius cars, they all come from Japan. So finally the completed car is shipped to the US, so add some more fuel for that trip. In the end, a delivered Prius is so far in the environmental hole by the time it reaches the end user, it will never have a negative impact on the environment, but it will get 40 mpg.

Political correctness at its finest!

it is 107 today here at my house.

AC would be mandatory.. :)

BUT... using your figures, (and no AC) it would cost about $1.37 to recharge it after driving it 30 miles or so.

That's based on my cost here at home per KWH.

My DTS, on the freeway, driving it sanely... will get close to 25MPG...

It would cost me around 4 bucks to drive my DTS the same 30 miles...WITH MY AC ON WIDE OPEN... :D

As for ME... I think will pay the extra $2.50 and ride along in my big, smooth, comfortable DTS, with the XM radio playing my songs, the AC seats blowing cool air on my back and legs, while the seat massages my back and the vehicle AC keeping the entire ride nice and comfortable and enjoyable.

AND I don't have to remember to plug the stupid thing in every night... :)

But that's just me...

[JimD]

....

As for ME... I think will pay the extra $2.50 and ride along in my big, smooth, comfortable DTS, with the XM radio playing my songs, the AC seats blowing cool air on my back and legs, while the seat massages my back and the vehicle AC keeping the entire ride nice and comfortable and enjoyable.

AND I don't have to remember to plug the stupid thing in every night... :)

But that's just me...

Based on the sales figures for the Volt, that is NOT a minority position.

[airmike]

It's not politically correct to be asking that kind of questions!

A loss obvious cost is the development of the 'new' technology required to squeeze even a 50 mile range from a package of lithium-ion cells. And you have already paid that bill. Read this one:

http://www.anl.gov/M...news110110.html

He is my take on being politically correct--I have NO desire to be a politician, so say what you mean and I will also, then you don't have to vote for me or me for you!! "politically correct" is my least favorite saying ever