dreaded head gasket hits my '97 SLS, what years aren't afflicted by this???

[Flyer]

92k miles and my '97 gave up. Not impressive be any standards, but I'm in love with Cadillacs, and I want an '04 STS. Are there any Northstar powered Cadi's that aren't afflicted by this head problem? Was this ever fixed? Or are all the n* engines prone to it?

Thanks.

[BodybyFisher]

There were changes to the head bolts in 2000 and 2004, we have seen a big drop in head gasket problems from 2004 on.

[mike5514]

I have to chime in here, probably should not-but! IMHO short bolts, long bolts, course bolts, fine bolts (all good). The ns is a fine engine but it is not a chevy small block and it is certainly not a race engine. I understand that this forum advocates (wots) I would not do wots unless I was trying to outrun the cops or if I was being chased by drug dealers. slaming your throttle shut at 5000 rpm is not a good idea Gm at one time claimed you could drive 50 miles without coolant NONSENSE, doing so will greatly increase your chance of HG failure. I had a water pump belt break once, pulled to the side of the road hitched a ride to the dealer and installed a new belt on the spot. A NS overheating is a strong cause of Hg failure A aluminum block can not take it for any length of time or if at all. Probably the cooling system should have a quart or more of coolant than it is designed for. As to the the 2005 and newer NS their mileage figures are still low and their game has yet to be played. If you drive like the people the car was designed for and you service your cooling system often hg problems should be reduced. I have a 97sls and a 06dts fine cars, and Im still learning to live within there capabilities. Mike

[Texas Jim]

I have to chime in here, probably should not-but! IMHO short bolts, long bolts, course bolts, fine bolts (all good).

The ns is a fine engine but it is not a chevy small block and it is certainly not a race engine.

I understand that this forum advocates (wots) I would not do wots unless I was trying to outrun the cops or if I was being chased by drug dealers. slaming your throttle shut at 5000 rpm is not a good idea

Gm at one time claimed you could drive 50 miles without coolant NONSENSE, doing so will greatly increase your chance of HG failure. I had a water pump belt break once, pulled to the side of the road hitched a ride to the dealer and installed a new belt on the spot. A NS overheating is a strong cause of Hg failure A aluminum block can not take it for any length of time or if at all. Probably the cooling system should have a quart or more of coolant than it is designed for. As to the the 2005 and newer NS their mileage figures are still low and their game has yet to be played. If you drive like the people the car was designed for and you service your cooling system often hg problems should be reduced. I have a 97sls and a 06dts fine cars, and Im still learning to live within there capabilities. Mike

What is wrong with opening the throttle and closing the throttle??

I will have to take issue with this statement.

Maybe it isn't a SBC... (Small Block Chevy)...but as you said above... it "IS" a fine engine.

If WOT had anything to do with blowing Headgaskets on the newer engines...mine would have blown a LONG TIME AGO.

In my opinion, I do not think a Small Block Chevy would have held up to the kind of miles I have put on my 2006 DTS.

I currently have over 94,000 miles on it and it "REGULARLY" sees WOT... In fact, almost every time I drive it.

It has also spent a LOT OF HOURS cruising at well in excess of 100 MPH.

I also like to get in the mountains and play on real crooked roads...

Usually in 1st and 2nd gear... keeping the RPM well above 4,000 for a few miles at a time.

With the Magnetic Suspension and big tires... that can be fun.

Oh...And my rev limiter is at 6,800...not 5000.

I used to have it at 7,100... but power falls off just a tad after you pass 6,800.. so I set it back to 6,800.

It is just starting to RUN REALLY GOOD at 5000.

I love the sound of the NorthStar when it is at WOT and winding up.

It still runs as good as the day I bought it Brand New.

It uses absolutely NO OIL between changes.

It gets decent gas mileage.

It is very comfortable and fun to drive.

So far it has done every thing I have asked it to do...

You can't ask for much more in a vehicle...

[BodybyFisher]

I have to chime in here, probably should not-but! IMHO short bolts, long bolts, course bolts, fine bolts (all good). The ns is a fine engine but it is not a chevy small block and it is certainly not a race engine. I understand that this forum advocates (wots) I would not do wots unless I was trying to outrun the cops or if I was being chased by drug dealers. slaming your throttle shut at 5000 rpm is not a good idea Gm at one time claimed you could drive 50 miles without coolant NONSENSE, doing so will greatly increase your chance of HG failure. I had a water pump belt break once, pulled to the side of the road hitched a ride to the dealer and installed a new belt on the spot. A NS overheating is a strong cause of Hg failure A aluminum block can not take it for any length of time or if at all. Probably the cooling system should have a quart or more of coolant than it is designed for. As to the the 2005 and newer NS their mileage figures are still low and their game has yet to be played. If you drive like the people the car was designed for and you service your cooling system often hg problems should be reduced. I have a 97sls and a 06dts fine cars, and Im still learning to live within there capabilities. Mike

This is without a doubt the worst post I have ever read on here since THE FRED posted here, sorry Mike this is your opinion, and it contains lots of misinformation

[JimD]

....this is your opinion, and it contains lots of misinformation

Regurgitated one more time to reinforce the misinformation that permiates the Internet and follows Northstar owners wherever they go.

Onward through the fog....future readers beware!!

[Flyer]

....this is your opinion, and it contains lots of misinformation

Regurgitated one more time to reinforce the misinformation that permiates the Internet and follows Northstar owners wherever they go.

Onward through the fog....future readers beware!!

Thanks for the replies. I love cadi's but im afraid to get another due to the problem that I was expecting finally happening. The engine is not sound, period. If it was fixed in the later years im all ears because I want to own another...but not until im satisfied that the inititial design flaw has been fixed.

I expect any cadillac that I buy to hold up to a constant barage of WOT if I choose, and like it. Its the flagship sedan.

[Texas Jim]

Thanks for the replies. I love cadi's but im afraid to get another due to the problem that I was expecting finally happening. The engine is not sound, period. If it was fixed in the later years im all ears because I want to own another...but not until im satisfied that the inititial design flaw has been fixed.

I expect any cadillac that I buy to hold up to a constant barage of WOT if I choose, and like it. Its the flagship sedan.

Flyer,

I probably drive my 2006 DTS as hard as anyone here.

I bought it new... it now has over 94,000 miles on it.

I don't "ABUSE" it and I take very good care of it.

I maintain it well... but I am not afraid to "DRIVE IT" either.

The headbolts were redesigned in 2004.

I have not heard of any from 2004 and newer having HG problems.

Maybe there are some, I'm not saying there isn't... but I have not heard of any.

I will probably be buying a 2010 or 2011 later on this year.. probably about the time the 2012's come out.

I will have to keep it a really long time because I recently retired and will not be able to afford trading cars every few years anymore.

If I had any doubt about the reliability of the NorthStar.. I would buy something else.

If you read my earlier post... my DTS gets WOT often.

One reason is .. "I" think it is good for it.. and the 2nd reason is it is so much fun. :)

I am getting old... but I am not too old to still enjoy things.

Any questions I can answer about the newer ones... I will be glad to try to help.

[JimD]

....The engine is not sound, period.

I have to disagree and this is not an opinion. My 13 year old with more than 200,000 miles remains a reliable daily driver. And I refuse to walk around with a pessismistic attitude waiting for something to fail.

If it was fixed in the later years im all ears because I want to own another...but not until im satisfied that the inititial design flaw has been fixed.

You see evidence of a possible failed gasket and call that a design flaw. I see empirical evidence of an engine that continues to perform as expected after what almost anyone would consider high mileage.

And WOT therapy is applied at every safe opportunity.

[Flyer]

Thanks for the replies. I love cadi's but im afraid to get another due to the problem that I was expecting finally happening. The engine is not sound, period. If it was fixed in the later years im all ears because I want to own another...but not until im satisfied that the inititial design flaw has been fixed.

I expect any cadillac that I buy to hold up to a constant barage of WOT if I choose, and like it. Its the flagship sedan.

Flyer,n

I probably drive my 2006 DTS as hard as anyone here.

I bought it new... it now has over 94,000 miles on it.

I don't "ABUSE" it and I take very good care of it.

I maintain it well... but I am not afraid to "DRIVE IT" either.

The headbolts were redesigned in 2004.

I have not heard of any from 2004 and newer having HG problems.

Maybe there are some, I'm not saying there isn't... but I have not heard of any.

I will probably be buying a 2010 or 2011 later on this year.. probably about the time the 2012's come out.

I will have to keep it a really long time because I recently retired and will not be able to afford trading cars every few years anymore.

If I had any doubt about the reliability of the NorthStar.. I would buy something else.

If you read my earlier post... my DTS gets WOT often.

One reason is .. "I" think it is good for it.. and the 2nd reason is it is so much fun. :)

I am getting old... but I am not too old to still enjoy things.

Any questions I can answer about the newer ones... I will be glad to try to help.

Thanks. Incidentally, the only headgaskets that I've ever blown were both cadi's, a 4.9l seville, and now my sls. I run any and every vehicle I've ever owned at wot, frequently, and I expect that of all modern vehicles.

What is the prior failure mechanism that only a headbolt redesigned was able to fix the issue? Or was the engine block addressed as well?

[Texas Jim]

Thanks. Incidentally, the only headgaskets that I've ever blown were both cadi's, a 4.9l seville, and now my sls. I run any and every vehicle I've ever owned at wot, frequently, and I expect that of all modern vehicles.

What is the prior failure mechanism that only a headbolt redesigned was able to fix the issue? Or was the engine block addressed as well?

I am curious and I have a question...

How do you know your headgaskets are bad?

What test have you run to determine bad gaskets.

As for the new bolt design... the bolts were lengthened and the thread pitch was changed.

There are a bunch of guys here that can give you all the technical details of the bolts...both before the 2000 redesign and then the 2004 redesign.

I will let THEM answer THOSE questions.

[Flyer]

....The engine is not sound, period.

I have to disagree and this is not an opinion. My 13 year old with more than 200,000 miles remains a reliable daily driver. And I refuse to walk around with a pessismistic attitude waiting for something to fail.

If it was fixed in the later years im all ears because I want to own another...but not until im satisfied that the inititial design flaw has been fixed.

You see evidence of a possible failed gasket and call that a design flaw. I see empirical evidence of an engine that continues to perform as expected after what almost anyone would consider high mileage.

And WOT therapy is applied at every safe opportunity.

The engine has a terminal flaw. I understand it was redesigned to correct this. This is the nature of these things...my ls1 has a design flaw that was later corrected as well, it just so happens to be a flaw that doesn't show under normal use, but at the racetrack under continued high rpm use.

There is no need to defend the northstar early generations. This thread is about finding my a cadillac that is northstar powered, but not afflicted with the head gasket/bolt design flaw.

[Flyer]

Thanks. Incidentally, the only headgaskets that I've ever blown were both cadi's, a 4.9l seville, and now my sls. I run any and every vehicle I've ever owned at wot, frequently, and I expect that of all modern vehicles.

What is the prior failure mechanism that only a headbolt redesigned was able to fix the issue? Or was the engine block addressed as well?

I am curious and I have a question...

How do you know your headgaskets are bad?

What test have you run to determine bad gaskets.

As for the new bolt design... the bolts were lengthened and the thread pitch was changed.

There are a bunch of guys here that can give you all the technical details of the bolts...both before the 2000 redesign and then the 2004 redesign.

I will let THEM answer THOSE questions.

I will answer this when I get on my laptop tonight...too much typing for my phone!!

[Texas Jim]

Thanks. Incidentally, the only headgaskets that I've ever blown were both cadi's, a 4.9l seville, and now my sls. I run any and every vehicle I've ever owned at wot, frequently, and I expect that of all modern vehicles.

What is the prior failure mechanism that only a headbolt redesigned was able to fix the issue? Or was the engine block addressed as well?

I am curious and I have a question...

How do you know your headgaskets are bad?

What test have you run to determine bad gaskets.

As for the new bolt design... the bolts were lengthened and the thread pitch was changed.

There are a bunch of guys here that can give you all the technical details of the bolts...both before the 2000 redesign and then the 2004 redesign.

I will let THEM answer THOSE questions.

I will answer this when I get on my laptop tonight...too much typing for my phone!!

Understood...

[BodybyFisher]

Thanks. Incidentally, the only headgaskets that I've ever blown were both cadi's, a 4.9l seville, and now my sls. I run any and every vehicle I've ever owned at wot, frequently, and I expect that of all modern vehicles.

What is the prior failure mechanism that only a headbolt redesigned was able to fix the issue? Or was the engine block addressed as well?

I am curious and I have a question...

How do you know your headgaskets are bad?

What test have you run to determine bad gaskets.

As for the new bolt design... the bolts were lengthened and the thread pitch was changed.

There are a bunch of guys here that can give you all the technical details of the bolts...both before the 2000 redesign and then the 2004 redesign.

I will let THEM answer THOSE questions.

I already said the bolts were changed in 2000 and 2004 and we are not seeing failures of 2004+ NSs.

That said, it can happen to any engine these days

here is an 05 Mercedes with a blown head gasket

http://www.mercedesforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39923&highlight=blown+head+gasket

Here is a nice story about a BMW

http://www.bmw-forums.net/bmw-forum2561.html#2561

I have seached this forum, cadillacowners and the internet for head gasket problems and I dont see an on 04 and newer, just older, even some CTS's,

The problem is, we do no know the cause of the blown head gaskets when they occur, maybe an owner abused the car and warped a head

IF there was 04 and newer head gaskets blowing we would DEFINATELY know about it here, believe me, this place is a FOCAL POINT of problems and ALL we hear about is problems, not many reach out when they dont have problems

Look at TexasJim, I dont believe that anyone drives there NS harder, he only knows one speed, if WOTs or hard use were the cause, Jim would have blown his head gasket for sure. We just are not seeing the problem anymore at the rate the 93 through 99 had the problem

[mike27513]

92k miles and my '97 gave up. Not impressive be any standards, but I'm in love with Cadillacs, and I want an '04 STS. Are there any Northstar powered Cadi's that aren't afflicted by this head problem? Was this ever fixed? Or are all the n* engines prone to it?

Thanks.

[mike27513]

I have the same question.

The problem is small sample sizes in each person's experience.

It would be useful if there was statistically valid industry information from GM or a large independent repair chain as to the frequency of HG issues. [in my case I have my own small sample size experiment owning an 04 XLR and my 03 Deville.]

I think the DTS is the best road car out there for the price, but do the 05-11 Devilles/DTS have any higher than average HG repair concerns?

But Saying that- all of my 2 Towncars / 2 Explorers/ 1 Expedition 4.6 &5.4L have been issue free for the engines from 1995-2011, some transmission problems though .

All of the 3.5L GM engines in my daughter's G6 and son's Malibu cars have had no engine issues so far with 160K total miles.

[Flyer]

Thanks. Incidentally, the only headgaskets that I've ever blown were both cadi's, a 4.9l seville, and now my sls. I run any and every vehicle I've ever owned at wot, frequently, and I expect that of all modern vehicles.

What is the prior failure mechanism that only a headbolt redesigned was able to fix the issue? Or was the engine block addressed as well?

I am curious and I have a question...

How do you know your headgaskets are bad?

What test have you run to determine bad gaskets.

As for the new bolt design... the bolts were lengthened and the thread pitch was changed.

There are a bunch of guys here that can give you all the technical details of the bolts...both before the 2000 redesign and then the 2004 redesign.

I will let THEM answer THOSE questions.

I already said the bolts were changed in 2000 and 2004 and we are not seeing failures of 2004+ NSs.

That said, it can happen to any engine these days

here is an 05 Mercedes with a blown head gasket

http://www.mercedesforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39923&highlight=blown+head+gasket

Here is a nice story about a BMW

http://www.bmw-forums.net/bmw-forum2561.html#2561

I have seached this forum, cadillacowners and the internet for head gasket problems and I dont see an on 04 and newer, just older, even some CTS's,

The problem is, we do no know the cause of the blown head gaskets when they occur, maybe an owner abused the car and warped a head

IF there was 04 and newer head gaskets blowing we would DEFINATELY know about it here, believe me, this place is a FOCAL POINT of problems and ALL we hear about is problems, not many reach out when they dont have problems

Look at TexasJim, I dont believe that anyone drives there NS harder, he only knows one speed, if WOTs or hard use were the cause, Jim would have blown his head gasket for sure. We just are not seeing the problem anymore at the rate the 93 through 99 had the problem

Yeah thanks, I appreciate the input. I would like to know the specifics of the changes, if you could point me to the information I would gladly read it over. I really want the '04 STS, I think it's a beautiful car, but I wanna know exactly what thread pitch/diameter changes where made. It would put me at ease to study this information. Otherwise I'd consider the same body style that Texas Jim has of the DTS, big fan of that automobile as well.

Texas Jim: I'm not 100% positive that a head gasket is the problem, but all signs point to that right now. The car overheated cruising on the highway at 73mph on a cool night, and puked coolant out the reservoir overflow. I don't have any billowing smoke yet, and no apparent coolant in the oil, after having drained the oil to check... but the car has very few miles since the overheating phenomenon (less than 5), so I may find evidence of that soon.

The engine runs a few ticks higher temp than it ever has before, and when pushed, I can make the temp surge even higher. There is a very noticeable power loss in 2nd gear most all of the time, but occasionally it has full power. No stumbling noticed yet, and I haven't looked over the coolant for bubbles or checked any compression either.

If anyone has suggestions I'd be glad to listen, but this isn't really a troubleshooting thread, I can do that on my own, I've been convinced for quite some time that the early northstars were flawed, and regardless of the outcome of mine, I will still think this is the case.

[Flyer]

I have the same question.

The problem is small sample sizes in each person's experience.

It would be useful if there was statistically valid industry information from GM or a large independent repair chain as to the frequency of HG issues. [in my case I have my own small sample size experiment owning an 04 XLR and my 03 Deville.]

I think the DTS is the best road car out there for the price, but do the 05-11 Devilles/DTS have any higher than average HG repair concerns?

But Saying that- all of my 2 Towncars / 2 Explorers/ 1 Expedition 4.6 &5.4L have been issue free for the engines from 1995-2011, some transmission problems though .

All of the 3.5L GM engines in my daughter's G6 and son's Malibu cars have had no engine issues so far with 160K total miles.

I've completely flogged every vehicle I've ever owned, '68 mustang, '86 GTi and '86 S10, '93 Cadi, '99 vette, '06 Silverado duramax, '97 SLS, and a few others, and the only head gasket I've ever lost was the '93 Seville, which broke a headbolt, and I strongly suspect my '97 SLS, but it isn't confirmed.

Modern engines should give 150k+ miles imho, with the occasional exception, not the frequency that you hear of the early Northstars.

[Texas Jim]

I know you said this isn't a trouble shooting thread...bur..

Check to see if the return line that comes from the "BOLT WITH A HOLE IN IT" is flowing coolant back to the reservoir.

The bolt has a frequent issue of getting stopped up and will give the symptoms you just described.

[KHE]

Thanks. Incidentally, the only headgaskets that I've ever blown were both cadi's, a 4.9l seville, and now my sls. I run any and every vehicle I've ever owned at wot, frequently, and I expect that of all modern vehicles.

What is the prior failure mechanism that only a headbolt redesigned was able to fix the issue? Or was the engine block addressed as well?

I am curious and I have a question...

How do you know your headgaskets are bad?

What test have you run to determine bad gaskets.

As for the new bolt design... the bolts were lengthened and the thread pitch was changed.

There are a bunch of guys here that can give you all the technical details of the bolts...both before the 2000 redesign and then the 2004 redesign.

I will let THEM answer THOSE questions.

I already said the bolts were changed in 2000 and 2004 and we are not seeing failures of 2004+ NSs.

That said, it can happen to any engine these days

here is an 05 Mercedes with a blown head gasket

http://www.mercedesforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39923&highlight=blown+head+gasket

Here is a nice story about a BMW

http://www.bmw-forums.net/bmw-forum2561.html#2561

I have seached this forum, cadillacowners and the internet for head gasket problems and I dont see an on 04 and newer, just older, even some CTS's,

The problem is, we do no know the cause of the blown head gaskets when they occur, maybe an owner abused the car and warped a head

IF there was 04 and newer head gaskets blowing we would DEFINATELY know about it here, believe me, this place is a FOCAL POINT of problems and ALL we hear about is problems, not many reach out when they dont have problems

Look at TexasJim, I dont believe that anyone drives there NS harder, he only knows one speed, if WOTs or hard use were the cause, Jim would have blown his head gasket for sure. We just are not seeing the problem anymore at the rate the 93 through 99 had the problem

Yeah thanks, I appreciate the input. I would like to know the specifics of the changes, if you could point me to the information I would gladly read it over. I really want the '04 STS, I think it's a beautiful car, but I wanna know exactly what thread pitch/diameter changes where made. It would put me at ease to study this information. Otherwise I'd consider the same body style that Texas Jim has of the DTS, big fan of that automobile as well.

Texas Jim: I'm not 100% positive that a head gasket is the problem, but all signs point to that right now. The car overheated cruising on the highway at 73mph on a cool night, and puked coolant out the reservoir overflow. I don't have any billowing smoke yet, and no apparent coolant in the oil, after having drained the oil to check... but the car has very few miles since the overheating phenomenon (less than 5), so I may find evidence of that soon.

The engine runs a few ticks higher temp than it ever has before, and when pushed, I can make the temp surge even higher. There is a very noticeable power loss in 2nd gear most all of the time, but occasionally it has full power. No stumbling noticed yet, and I haven't looked over the coolant for bubbles or checked any compression either.

If anyone has suggestions I'd be glad to listen, but this isn't really a troubleshooting thread, I can do that on my own, I've been convinced for quite some time that the early northstars were flawed, and regardless of the outcome of mine, I will still think this is the case.

The first thing to check is that there is coolant flow from the purge line. With the engine cold, disconnect the 3/8" line at the top of the surge tank and have a helper start the engine. Coolant should flow out the hose. If not, clear the obstruction in the purge line - often at the opposite end where it attaches to the waterpump housing area.

[mike5514]

Who is THE FRED. Mike

[johnnyjaws]

it dosent matter there are lemons in every moter didint you ever hear never buy a monday car// meaning cars that were bilt on a monday

[Texas Jim]

it dosent matter there are lemons in every moter didint you ever hear never buy a monday car// meaning cars that were bilt on a monday

Do you have any evidence or FACTS to back up that statement???

If so... I would like to see them.