hms200 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Yes, understood on studs not an option for in-car repair and why...thx guys. Norms serts are an option however if I address this in-car from everything I understand so far. I've noted all warnings/cautions that in-car is the more difficult path to take. Unless I opt to farm this job out (not my desire) then I don't have option to remove the engine with my specific circumstances as things stand today. So I'm trying to focus my prep research based on concept of in-car and how best to overcome the obstacles I'll come up against. HMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Renting an engine hoist and engine stand and pull the engine it makes much more sense Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hms200 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Hi all... Here's my latest update... I snagged a set of Factory (OEM) Shop Manuals last night on eBay for a pretty good price - 2002 Eldorado, so I'll be well set with that info plus my Alldata access for my specific vehicle. Project is now underway, finally. I have NOT yet committed fully on in-car vs. cradle drop...but I now have option to go either way since I now have a 2-ton cherry picker. For the benefit of those that come after me on the blown HG's/HB's issue, I will provide below info. Maybe some will have less questions, concerns or worries on options as I've had up to this point. Trial Effort to make Northstar Head Gasket / Head Bolt Repair with engine IN-CAR. It can be done...proof is out there. Question remaing is, CAN I DO IT? WHY? I have no vehicle lift and only limited space. I do however now have a 2-ton hoist and a plan with insight on how to execute a cradle drop without a lift if in-car approach doesn't work for me. 1. Initial limited disassembly of top, including cooling fans, radiator, radiator tank, battery, air filter box, intake air plenum, both bones and other initial access items. 2. Did NOT remove or disconnect A/C Condenser or A/C system (not yet anyway)...condenser DOES seperate just fine from radiator if you figure out the trick (lift condenser up and back from radiator after removing a few bolts). 3. Jacked up vehicle from front cradle beam. 4. Placed jack stands under chassis on both sides, directly behind front wheels and BEHIND rear cradle (not ON cradle), jack stand height of 2nd notch from bottom setting (may vary depending on your stands). 5. Lowered vehicle onto the jack stands and tested stability. 6. Placed a 2nd set of jack stands under front outer sides of cradle and raised them to within ~1" of current cradle height, for safety. 7. Raised jack from front cradle to point of firm upper pressure on cradle, but NOT lifted off the jack stands behind front wheels. 8. Carefully inspected entire cradle area from underneath AND above and disconnected any hose straps and other attached items that would obstruct movement or be damaged by same. Only a few things were found that needed this (from underneath...most will flex or move on/with cradle. 9. Removed front cradle bolts (one on each side). 10. Lowered cradle slowly/gently onto the jack stands, thus lowering cradle about an inch. 11. Once again I carefully inspected intire cradle area, from below AND from the top...found NO obstructions or anything in a bind. Everything was either moving with cradle, flexing naturally (rubber hoses, wiring, etc) or was clear of cradle altogether. 12. Jacked up cradle off the front jack stands and then lowered both front the stands further. For mine that was to the bottom setting. 13. Lowered cradle back down onto the jack stands slowly/gently and carefully inspected entire cradle area yet a 3rd time. 14. Measured all clearances. Cradle in front has now been lowered 5", clearance from firewall HVAC cover to back valve cover is now 3 1/2", front clearance still very good due to prior fans and radiator removal. Side access (both) are now more obstructed due to being lower. So, rear access is now very good and that is/was the primary area of concern for in-car effort. I can now actually see and get hands/tools down between engine and firewall. 15. Plan now is to swivel the cradle height up/down from this point, between 0"-5" lowered, as needed for project access. Will keep everybody posted on forward progress from this point. Will now proceed to complete my top end disassembly, moving inward toward the heads, and see how that goes...so far so good. I suspect that once top end disassembly is complete then there actually will be very little extra effort remaining for dropping entire cradle, if that may become necessary. But, if I can avoid that easily enough then I will have saved a lot of extra effort (maybe) though, so I'm approaching this with a "let's see" attitude, fully prepared to drop it if/when necessary...but will try first to prove in-car with minimal busted knuckles. Holding no false expectations here gents...if I must drop it, then so be it. I just wanna give the "old school" method a whirl first...call me stubborn...call me a rebel. The caddy cradle engineering is actually very slick I now see...no wonder you've all (most) have said, "drop it". If I had a car lift then I'd not be giving it even a second thought at this point. BTW...don't even bother attempting an engine tilt using tilt tool. I tried that first with very minimal overall success (maybe 1/2" rear access gained) and it was under some stain/stress. Could it go further? Perhaps, but you may bust a motor mount...or worse!! I suggest avoid altogether. There is a little natural forward motion there without stress, but not much...hardly worth the effort unless you're looking for only a fraction (less than 1/2") of extra rear clearance. HMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Just quickly, do not evacuate the AC system, remove the radiator, put a piece of 1/4" ply in front of the condenser to protect it, remove the AC compressor without detaching the pressure hoses, and place it where the radiator sits and the AC system will be able to stay with the body and you won't need to recharge your AC. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 BEFORE you start lowering the cradle detach the steering shaft so as not to damage it Are the AXLES out and control arms hanging loose? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hms200 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Thx for the tips and reminder BBF. At this moment I'm not lowering entire cradle, just the front by only 5". If/When I do lower entire cradle then both points noted. Yes, I hope not to break open the A/C if can be avoided...so that's a good tip for me and others that may follow. HMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hms200 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 BEFORE you start lowering the cradle detach the steering shaft so as not to damage it Are the AXLES out and control arms hanging loose? Do you think steering shaft is in a bind from the cradle tilt of 5" forward? Axles not out...they tilted as cradle front lowered. Do you think they are in a bind at this stage? It was really a small overall move of things at mid to back of cradle...maybe 1" to 1 1/2" max. What do you think BBF? HMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I would disconnect the steering shaft, take a look at it Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hms200 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 I would disconnect the steering shaft, take a look at it Inspected steering shaft as it currently sits, front cradle lowered 5". Shaft looks fine, not in bind or under stress. With connection located at rear of cradle and the swivel joint there, I don't believe the slight movement at back of cradle has caused any issue. If I lower it further in front (doubtful) or drop it completely then I will definitely disconnect. If anybody has any first hand info on this (steering shaft /w front cradle lowered by 5") then I hope you'll sing out. It looks ok to me, but I may be wrong. Caution raised by BBF has me a little concerned...any insight appreciated. Back of cradle hasn't been lowered any...simply tilted slightly as front lowered. HMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hms200 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Hey BBF...you are ONE SMART GUY!! Remember the 99% hunch you gave me on reason for my lean codes after I reported no vacuum leaks found? Well...exactly as you were so certain of...upon removal of the throttle body plemum I indeed found a massive crack/tear positioned in the lower middle section on back side of plenum. It isn't at the bottom...rather it's between 7-8 o'clock position if looking from intake manifold side. I wonder why GM must have the rubber flex in that fitting on back side where everything is secure (no movement)?? Hmmm...perhaps a stainless steel sleeve there instead of the flex rubber seems in order to prevent an ongoing repeated engineering flaw failure. If easily replaced then less of an issue...but not so for this plenum. BBF and others...a curious question... For those of you that have repaired the HB issue, how many of you found significant oil ooze in cavity under intake manifold coming from HG seam, running down the inner sides into puddle at bottom of inner cavity? With mine, almost entire front bank (at least 3 of 4 cylinders) is oozing oil into the cavity and also appears at least one cylinder as well on rear bank, though far less pronounced. The oil puddle at bottom of cavity isn't massive...perhaps 3-4 tablespoons of fresh oil, BUT, there is evidence that oil has been cooking down in that cavity, This sure looks like some clear evidence of less than secure/clamped HG's. If so then this is good...the kind of clear outward evidence I've fought so hard to find and not at all surprising I'd say for heads that have lost their clamp down torqued force from failed HB's. The ooze is clearly coming from the HG seam, not a crack, and it's more pronounced along where the actual HB's are located. There is no such seepage seen on outside of heads for either bank...strange. If I'm reading this evidence correctly then at least 3 or 4 of the inner upper HB's have failed in front bank (both ends are dry) and outer top HB of cylinder 7 (isn't it 1-3-5-7 for rear bank?) of rear bank (rest of that bank is dry). If this proves correct then from my perspective this is an interesting observation. I'm making this whole thing a learning experience as I go...thus my looking and asking along the way. Comments or thoughts anybody? I'm still working my way down toward the head removals so I'll hopefully have them pulled soon enough for further validation of my observations and speculation stated here. HMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 The oil that oozed into the valley won't hurt anything but I'd clean it up before reassembling the engine. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hms200 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Yes, understood Kevin and I will be cleaning it all up nice before ressembly. My common sense assumption being made was that the seepage is outward evidence of HB clamping failure...was asking if anybody else had seen same thing with thier own personal experiences. On a "normal" engine I'd translate that to proof of simple gasket failure, but with the Northstar I'm reading it as HB failures, especially since the ooze is specific located...telling me some bolts failed and some didn't...matching all info I've learned of this overall issue. No worries, I'll know soon enough for sure...plus without question I'll be repairing all 20 HBs...was just curious as I go along. Also...the plactic vacuum lines are certainly brittle...wow. Already snapped off two suction connector ends in course of disassembly. Think I may go back with conventional quality rubber vacuum tubing rather than that plastic junk unless there is a good arguement why not. The rubber tubing can be dressed out nicely with tie straps if done right. Does the very small diameter of current plastic tubes factor into overall vacuum capacity...anybody know? HMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hms200 Posted April 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Hello again gents... Well, after getting very side tracked on many other projects I'm now finally back onto my caddy project...head bolt thread repair and HG's. I dropped the cradle successfully...engine is completely out now. I'm tearing her down for head removals and I'm at the timing chains. To lock down the crankshaft for removal of crankshaft balancer, service manual specifies GM J-44214 Flywheel Holder. Can anybody confirm proper Kent-Moore part # for my 2001 Northstar...is it the Kent-Moore J-44214 (same as GM #) or some other? I also saw Kent-Moore J-39411 but I'm wondering if that's for an earlier model Northstar, or what? Appreciate any advice/info here guys... Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 There are a lot of holding tools available that are much cheaper than Kentmoore aka Spentmore. Just do a google search. You can pick one up almost anywhere or probably improvise and make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hms200 Posted April 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Thx Ranger...I just snagged the K-M J-44214 tool on eBay (used) for $15.50...including shipping. So that was a pretty good deal I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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