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97 Deville, I am told its a water pump issue


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The crossover manifold houses the water pump. Since the Northstar manifold is dry (no coolant in it) there has to be another way to get coolant from one head to the other. Hence the crossover manifold. It is mounted on the rear of the engine below the TB.

The pellets or sealant tabs are available at Walmart or most parts stores. It's made by Barsleaks. Product code HDC. They are meant to seal porous aluminum casting and seal small nuisance leaks. They are not "necessary". GM quit using them.

The tank is not an overflow tank. It's called the surge tank and is a sealed pressurized part of the cooling system and yes, they do tend to crack and leak after many heat/cool cycles.

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Here is what the crossover looks like out of the car, as Ranger said, the water pump is attached to it

CrossoverJob040.jpg

Here is a bad crossover seal, there are 4

DamagedCrossoverGasket.jpg

Another bad seal

LowerCrossoverGasket.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

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If the coolant tank is leaking, you will not hold pressure and you will boil at a lower temp and lose coolant. It is about $125 and yes they do crack, also check the cap for its ability to hold its rated pressure

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I may be wrong but it seems like the water is dripping off the bottom edge of the crossover, under the water pump, or very near that area.

Is there a resource for finding good used surge tanks online?

Your leak could be the water pump body seal, the water pump shaft seal (doubtful) or the crossover seal, leaking down and dripping off below the water pump. That is why my crossover did, it looked like water pump but it was the crossover seal leaking down.

How bad is the leak at that location, does it drip? You main problem could be your tank, and you might have a slight leak at the crossover/water pump

For parts try

www.gmotors.com and

www.rockauto.com

We have a 5% discount for rockauto

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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the water pump area leaks worse but the tank leaks bad too, right at the outlet where the hose on the bottom connects.

I suppose the only real way to know if the crossover seals are bad is to pull the crossover and replace em, eh?

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the water pump area leaks worse but the tank leaks bad too, right at the outlet where the hose on the bottom connects.

I suppose the only real way to know if the crossover seals are bad is to pull the crossover and replace em, eh?

NO, you do not want to do the crossover seals unless you need to, that is a huge job, I did the job and its difficult, GM allots 7 hours for the job with their lift and experience

First you should change your water pump including a new body seal, and torque it properly on reinstallation and see what you find given a mechanic said you needed a water pump.

Also pull the tank and have a look, it could be a loose clamp or cracked tank

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Ok. NOW what do I do?

I have everything off and have turned the water pump clockwise and it wont come off, counterclockwise and it doesnt tighten, I cant find the spot where it will release and the pump comes out. I turned the water pump so far clockwise at one pooint it wouldnt go any further clockwise and I had to turn back counter clockwise for a while.

I have tried everything I know, a few times the water pump felt loose but didnt come out.

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Right now I have the pump in a spot where it will move 1/8th" side to side, but if I rotate the pump tool left or right, it tightens up. I am lost what it takes to get this $^%#$%$#%#@$!#@$ thing out.

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yes, had the belt off. turns out I probably wasnt the first person trying to get it out, based on what a mess it was when it finally came out. the gasket was shot, too, so I put some gold gasket sealer on the new one and stuck it in place and slipped the new water pump back in good as new.

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I believe it has a large O ring that seals it on the pulley side. You should have gotten a new one with it. Keep an eye on it to be sure that it does not leak.

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From what I recall there is a special tool required to remove the water pump and if you don't have it, it isn't coming off. Many parts stores will let you rent it if you don't have it on hand.

*edit* I must have missed the post where you said you finally got it out. Oops. happy.gif

big4870885.jpg

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yessir...it came with one that was so limp it wouldnt even stay in place so i had to hold it in with gasket sealer. i wiped it clean and all the contact spaces as well.

now i have another small dilemma. i see that the cast water pump housing cover is cracked by the back bolt so i need to replace that too. where can i find one of those online? any suggestions?

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The water pump cover can be gotten at the dealer along with a new seal. The cover has been redesigned so you need to get a new seal that fits the new cover

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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any idea what that will set me back? (so i dont fall over when they tell me :) )

Three + years ago I paid $27 for the cover and $5 for the seal from an online GM dealer parts counter.

If the crack does not extend inside the seal perimeter, it should not be leaking. If your seal is not leaking, you could stop drill the crack and keep an eye open for any leakage in the future.

Jim

Drive your car.

Use your cell phone.

CHOOSE ONE !

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I sealed a small leak on my cover with JB Weld epoxy over 6 months ago and it's still holding up...perhaps that could be considered an option in your case as well assuming, like Jim said, that the crack isn't severe.

big4870885.jpg

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I considered it but found a cover locally for $56+$13 for the gasket so I will replace it while its all apart and then I wont have to wonder. Good suggestion on the JB Weld though, always a good option!

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That price is out of line and according to rockauto it may include the thermostat outlet cover.

You are only looking for the cover, on rockauto.com the redesigned seal is $2.27

Look around more that price is outrageous

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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yep, agreed, after looking around it was way high.

I found it on one of the famous online auctions for $30 shipped. However, in talking to the parts guy, and telling him that after I took it apart and found no thermostat in it, he immediately went into cautionary mode and advised that I not stick too much money into the car until I ID if its got bad head gaskets. He said that its not uncommon to take out the thermostat to try and get it to run cooler...

so...

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....He said that its not uncommon to take out the thermostat to try and get it to run cooler...

What the parts guy should have said is "it's not uncommon for someone with zero Northstar experience to take out the thermostat....".

In fact, a Northstar cooling system will run hotter with no thermostat installed.

Jim

Drive your car.

Use your cell phone.

CHOOSE ONE !

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