Bruce Nunnally Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Tonight I have added this separate forum for coverage of the 2013 Cadillac XTS. The XTS concept will be announced at midnight tonight. It will enter production in 2012 as a 2013 model. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted January 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Added thumbnail images for the XTS to the main forum index, and a link to the blog summary article: http://caddyinfo.com/wordpress/?p=4653 which also has more pics & details on the new Cadillac XTS concept. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmk9561 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 The bad: I have to say that I'm crushed over this. I know that a Super Malibu is in the spirit of the Seville, but I don't think that it's that appropriate anymore, especially to be called the flagship model. This concept is amazingly good looking, but I'm sad over the departure of RWD, V8 engines, and a premium platform. If this were posed as a competitor for the Lexus ES, I'd be thrilled. As a competitor for the LS, S-class, and BMW 7 it's an epic fail. At least the DTS had class-leading size and room going for it and the current RWD STS was a superb car that deserved an in-kind followup. Replacing it with this car makes it as if it never happened. The good: This looks like a logical stylistic evolution of the 92-97 Seville, a body style that really is a good-looking car. It's as if the RWD STS never happened. The current STS might be unrealized potential, but it doesn't deserve to be forgotten. The STS-V is second only to the mighty current CTS-V as the most powerful Cadillac ever. It's quite a car. The STS may have never led its segment, but I always thought that is was a good indicator that Cadillac was taking its market and competition seriously. The Super Malibu XTS couldn't be a bigger substantive step down from cars like the Lexus LS. It can only really competitive with the Lincoln MKS and Lexus ES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted January 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 You make some interesting points. First, I want to see the car in person before I decide on it. Second, although the concept is shown as having a V6 Hybrid we are almost certain to see the non-hybrid 3.6L LLT variant of 2013 as the base engine, and I am hoping for an LSx as the performance engine. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmk9561 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 You make some interesting points. First, I want to see the car in person before I decide on it. Second, although the concept is shown as having a V6 Hybrid we are almost certain to see the non-hybrid 3.6L LLT variant of 2013 as the base engine, and I am hoping for an LSx as the performance engine. I'll reserve total judgment until I read several reviews or drive one. That said, we know where it came from. The 3.6 Malibu is a very nice car in the midsize segment. The Buick LaCrosse is a compelling alternative to the Lexus ES. The apple can't fall far from the tree. I can't say that the XTS is likely to be dramatically different from the Buick from a driving standpoint. I further doubt that an LS V8 fits in that platform or that it would provide improved performance over the 3.6. Further, the XTS is likely to be a lot more expensive (compare the Lucerne to the DTS). Let Lincoln compete in the "almost Premier Auto Group." Cadillac's RWD rebirth was a huge step in the right direction. This car should've been Zeta based, on the long Statesman/Caprice wheelbase. The rave reviews of the G8 GXP make it clear that the Zeta platform can be a viable BMW competitor, and that's the role that Cadillac should be playing. I don't object to the BLS or the XTS as a car at the lower end. Nice as it is, and I'll honestly say that it's good looking and seems to be nice inside, it's a joke as a flagship sedan in the big-boy class. Compare this to a BMW 7, Mercedes S, or Lexus LS. This ain't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted January 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 The new AWD system kind of blurs the line between FWD and RWD, with the ability to push almost all the power to the rear wheels, and with the ability to be biased to one end but change front to rear and side to side in real time very quickly. I agree I want to hear some driving tests, but the AWD XTS may have RWD cornering characteristics. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Is the XTS is the DTS replacement? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted January 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Yes, the new DTS is an AWD concept that will go into production in 2012 as a 2013 model to replace the DTS and the STS. Full details: http://caddyinfo.com/wordpress/?p=4653 Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupeDTS Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 without seeing one in person it reminds me of the Lincoln MKZ/Zephyr. Im sure it will do fine. But with cadillacs unique emphasis on styling and performance lately I just cant see "grandma and grandpa" going out and buying a new cadillac like they used to for their big roomyness interiors, big trunk and elegant, classic, grown up styling. People that liked cadillacs when they grew up that had sails and were some of the largest cars on the road could buy one when they got older and could afford one that still had sails (tho smaller) and were still among the largest, all ending roughly in the 2000s with all new styling. Cadillac always targeted the upper age bracket and/or wealthy mostly because they were the only ones that could afford the high price tags. But with the cars they are making now it looks like they are targeting the rich middle aged/ young rich and wild population. Maybe the "grandma and grandpas" will all look at buicks exclusively now... A cadillac was set apart from chevrolets and fords etc because of their size and style. Now you can confuse a cadillac with alot of different auto makers and they try to lure you in with their nifty gadgets on the car to set it apart from others. Well now you can buy a honda or toyota with heated and cooled seats, sensory wipers, backup cameras, etc etc all those goodies. Cadillac has really changed and hopefully they know what theyre doing. I dont even like the newer ones much anymore, I thought about trading my 2000 for a newer DTS but to me they look basically the same even though they are over 5 years difference. I went out and bought a fleetwood because that is cadillac style to me. I had a 99 STS and after I bought it I was driving in front of a friend of mine and he didnt even realize it was me, he knew I got a new cadillac but said he didnt even realize my STS was a cadillac. Theres only a tiny little emblem on the back and sevilles didnt have the verticle taillights most cadillacs are known for. That was sad and I got rid of that car within a year. I might as well have been driving a plain impala if no one was even going to notice. Sorry too much ranting. Its just my opinion, some may agree... * 1966 Deville Convertible * 2007 Escalade ESV Black on Black * 1996 Fleetwood Brougham Black on Black V4P -Gone* 1983 Coupe Deville Street/Show Lowrider -Gone* 1970 Calais 4dr Hardtop GONE* 2000 Deville DTS - Silver with Black Leather and SE grille GONE* 1999 Seville STS - Pearl Red GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Obviously, I have not yet seen the car in person... but from the photos and the video I am left with the following: From the leading edge of the windshield back the car is stunning, beautifully proportioned a HUGE improvement from the STS and a nice update from the existing DTS. Long low and sexy looking, everything that a Caddilac should be. BUT... The front of the car is "screwed up" the front overhand is way too short, the hood is PUNY and the grill is too much "bling" is too upright and looks like it belongs on a truck. They need to fix the hood, the nose and, tone down the grill and the car will be perfect. Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted tcb Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 I see a bit of the Malibu in the front end, and lots of Lexus ES350 in the 3/4 profile. Looks like a nice, "near luxury" car. I believe the public associates flagship status vehicles with RWD and V8 power. The interior is really intriguing ... if those armrest are faux suede, I wonder how long they would hold up. Interesting, its been years since I've seen a flat intstrument cowl in a car ... not sure if I like that. Definitely need to see this car in person to determine where it fits into the lineup. 1989 FWD Fleetwood, Silver 1995 STS Crimson Pearl on Black leather 1997 STS Diamond White 1999 STS Crimson Pearl 2001 STS Silver 2003 STS, Crimson Pearl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted January 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 I agree I would like a longer front end on the XTS. I was expecting an extended 115" wheelbase instead of the Lacrosse like 112" wheelbase. I think this car looks much better in person than in photos. The instrument panel is all OLEDs and I think must be fun to watch. They can do a LOT with this approach in terms of picking what they want to display. They emphasized that they designed from the inside out -- so nailed the interior and let the exterior flow. Perhaps they did not have time to get the extended chassis ready for the show? Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Olsson Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Nice interior but I don't really like the looks. It looks plain and clumsy. The front end is to heavy and like someone said too short. The interior can surely beat the competition in any class but the exterior and the powetrain will likely turn potential buyers away (in the large/upper scale luxury car segment). Cadillacs have had 300 hp for 20 years now. BMW and Mercedes have both V8, V10 and V12 engines. Both gasoline and diesel. It's nice with a V6 but there is nothing special about that. A turbo or compressorcharged V6 will surely have the power but I'd rather have the Ultra engine. I really would like to see a Cadillac exklusive platform with Cadillac exklusive engines. It is supposed to be THE luxury brand. Not a rebadged Chevrolet... Personally I think that the RWD STS will be remembered as one of the last REAL Cadillacs. The luxury isn't just gizmos and a nice interior. A car is what a car can do. The sound, comfort, power, agility, smoothness, road holding etc is what makes a car to me. Not if the rear passengers can watch DVDs.. My STS (2002) has a soul, and my previous cars (a 1993 STS and a 1988 Eldorado) had plenty of "feeling". Ok the interiors wasn't as fancy as the competitors but they felt solid and provided me with great pleasure while driving them. I'm currently unemployed because of the industrial crisis and I'm planning to study a couple of years starting this autumn but when I'm through with my new education I will buy myself a RWD STS, the only Cadillac left for me to dream on. The other ones just don't do the trick for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Olsson Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I really like the interior. If they only decided to put a decent engine in too Making small engines feel big is something the europeans have tried for the last 30-40 years or so. I still can't say that a small engine makes me feel happier than a larger one does, simply because I still can feel the difference between them. Low end grunt (even in the DOHC Northstar without VVT), smoothness, power, no "unnecessary" accecories like a compressor or turbo(s), intercooler etc. The average luxury car owner don't give a darn about a slightly lower mpg. Simple is beautiful. Let the Chevrolet owners drive the V6 engines and let Cadillac have the V8 it deserves. Even an I6 is a better choice when it comes to refinement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofsts Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Correct me if I am wrong but the XTS is a DTS replacement, the STS is simply discontinued, the things that made it special,RWD/V8/Sigma platform gone !! Thoes of us who have bought the STS recently (mine an'08) have lost a ton of money lately and now it's a dead end model with further drop in valve. The STS depreciation rate must be or soon to be at an industry record ! There is nothing my dealer or Cadillac can do to make me feel anything but raked over the coals. My car has and probably will continue to serve me well, however it soon will have a discontinued/valueless cloud hanging over it. Put me done as disappointed !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 The XTS will replace the STS and the DTS. I don't think this will change the depreciation value for the STS models. The STS depreciation level has been high from the 80s when STS became a separate model til now. If anything I personally look for the last model of a type -- like the last FWD STS, as a bit more collectible than other examples. The way things seem to be shaping up, the next CTS is the REAL replacement for the RWD STS. It will be on an extended RWD Alpha platform and stay up market. The ATS will replace the CTS in the entry level. One remedy for depreciation of course is to keep the car. My CTS has depreciated to 30% of its original value in 5 years -- worth around $8-10K today, sold originally for around $34K. Luckily it is worth more to me to continue to drive it. Currently it is depreciating at a very low level year to year. If I had bought a Lexus ES350 it would theoretically be worth 40% now, so $13.6K. I'll keep my Cadillac. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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