New engine build in 02 Deville, HELP

[KHE]

I plan to start with a standard timesert, and if the filings that I see when I drill are clean and windy looking, great, if the filings look like dust or grit, Ill try a big sert, if I drill a big sert and see dust or grit, Ill throw the block out in the garbage and find an engine.

Mike,

The shavings won't be long spiral type shavings. They will be small, rectangular shavings that won't necessarily be shiny. As long as they are not powdery, you will be fine. Make sure you have a good variable speed drill such as a Milwaukee 1/2" magnum holeshooter and be sure to use the side-arm on the drill. Use plenty of WD-40 on the drill and the tap as cutting fluid. WD-40 is a nice cutting oil for aluminum and that is what Timesert recommends. You will need to remove the drill a couple of times per hole in order to remove the shavings and blow them out of the hole.

It will take several evenings to insert the block - I like to let the Loctite 266 to cure overnight on the new inserts before I use a newly inserted hole to fasten the Timesert drill fixture. You can insert the top 4 holes and the end lower hole on each bank and then follow up the next day with the remaining top and bottom holes the next day. It takes about 15 minutes to install one insert and you should have a helper to run a shop vac to vacuum up the shavings while you're drilling. You will also need a long air nozzle for your compressor to blow out the holes. Use brake cleaner to clean out the WD-40 that is used for cutting oil. Use 2" wide masking tape and old rags to keep the shavings from getting into the oil drain passages, etc.

When you're all done installing the inserts and after the Loctite has cured for at least a day, clean the Timeserts with brake clean to remove the oil that is used on the installation.

If you have any questons during the install, let me know and I'll help you as I have done this job on two engines so far.

Buy your gaskets from Rockauto - they have a "conversion gasket kit" by Felpro that has all the gaskets for the lower end and the new generation rear main seal. You will need the installation tool and sealant applicator for the ear main seal. If you repalce the cam cover gaskets, there is a Felpro kit for that as well. Felpro's also has the headgaskets and the headbolts that are less expensive than the gaskets and bolts from gmotors.com. Felpro is a Federal Mogul company who is a HUGE supplier to GM and I wouldn't be surprised if they were the OEM supplier to GM for the gaskets and seals.

If your oil pan gasket is leaking, buy a new oil manifold/distribution plate from gmotors.com as the original will leak like a sieve over time. Victor makes an oil distribution plate but it $20.00+ more than a GM part from gmotors.com.

If you are going to re-seal the case halves, be sure to use the GM epoxy RTV sealant. There is NO equivalant in the aftermarket.

[Ranger]

Personally, I'd use Norms before I'd use Timeserts. Even GM wised up in '04 and went to a coarser thread.

[don_k]

Ranger,

RE: Timesert + studs, you timesert the block the block which gives you the equivilant thread holding capability as a larger diameter bolt and then buy ARP studs w/M11 1.25 threads that screw into the timeserts (call ARP tech service, give them your engine info and they will give you the correct ARP studs, they do not make a North* labeled kit)

[Ranger]

You could have accomplished that without the inserts.

http://www.northstarperformance.com/sgstuds.php

[don_k]

I understand you support other options for thread repair/stregthening, I have explained my reasoning for the route I took and obviously it differs from your preferences.

[don_k]

My new engine and trans are back in the engine bay and I am completing the installation of thbe electrical harness. For those of you who are reluctant to remove an engine from the bottom, I say, don't be!!! Jump in there and do it. I started by raising the Deville approximately 12" at all four corners (I placed the rear wheels on raised wheel dollies and the front on jack stands under the uni-body frame). I followed the FSM proceedure for disconnecting everything, placed two floor jacks under the center of the engine trans cradle and lowered the cradle to minimum height on the two floor jacks. I then used my engine hoist to raise the front of the Deville high enough to slide the cradle laterally out the drivers side wheel well. I raised the front of the vehicle with the engine hoist approximately 10 additional inches to clear the top of the engine as it was moved laterally through the wheel well opening. The removal was no more difficult or time consuming than a normal removal from the top. Reinstallation is the reverse of the removal process and no more time consuming. I am planning to "fire" the new engine in the next two days with time allownces for my Grandson"s birthday and Mother's Day. Will give another update Monday or Tuesday.

[Texas Jim]

Congratulations on getting it all back together.

I am waiting for an update.

[don_k]

Well, the new engine fired right up, no problems. Everything is going fine w/the break in. Here is a recap of what I did: New engine block, heads, timing chains, gears and tensioners, new bearings, seals, gaskets (Cometic MLS headgskets), and rings; reused my original engine crankshaft, rods and pistons. Timeserted the new block and used ARP studs. Remanufactured transaxle. The engine and transaxle are changed from the from the original VIN 9 to VIN Y (VIN Y cams and VIN Y transaxle gear ratio). I had Westers program a PCM w/my VIN and all the VIN Y programing for the engine and transaxle. Everything is working perfectly, I am turning aproximately 1900 rpm @ 70 mph. My wife and I are leaving on a trip to South Dakota next Wednesday and will be gone for about 2 weeks (should be about a 3,000 mile trip). Will report back on how the engine trans are doing whe I return.

[Texas Jim]

VERY GOOD.

Glad to hear the good news.

Now I have to wait another two weeks for another report.

[don_k]

INFO FOR TROUBLESHOOTING OVERHEATING NORTHSTARS!!

I would have posted this info earlier (right after I got my new engine running) but I wanted to confirm my results with a few more days of driving. When I was reassembling my engine I found that the "Y" pipe connecting the two exhaust banks just befor the cat had a significant obstruction (the pipe from the front exhaust portruded into the main pipe at the joint). The obstruction was significant enough that I felt it would create exhaust back pressure. I decided to assemble the new engine with the obstructed exhaust and have it tested at muffler shop for backpressure. After starting the new engine and assuring everything was operating normal, I drove the car in verying conditions for a little over 50 mi. The new engine displayed the same heating symptoms that I had w/the old engine. On long uphill pulls the coolant temperature would continue to rise as long as the higher than normal load was present. I did this a couple times to confirm what was happening (I stopped the test both times when I got the temp to 240 deg (I did not want to damage the new engine). I then took it to my local muffler shop for the backpressure test. At idle it showed a little over 1 to 1 1/2 psi in front of the cat. At 2,000 rpm it showed 3 1/2 to 4 psi. Behind the cat it measured 1/2 psi at both an idle and 2,000 rpm. They removed the cat and the Y pipe. They ground the Y pipe portrusion flush w/the side of the main pipe. The cat vissually appeared to have about a 25-30 percent blockage and was replaced. I can now drive uphill as long as I want to w/normal coolant temps. The new engine runs exactly as it should w/no temperature excursions. I have been attempting to solve this problem since I bought the Deville 3 years ago. When I bought it it was still under a factory warranty. I took it to the dealership w/the temperature problem 4 times in the first 1 1/2 years I owned it. They told me all four times there was nothing wrong w/the engine. The last time I took it in was after a 250 degree excursion while driving through the CA desert on I-15. The trans torque converter quit locking after the incident. The dealer repaired the trans and told me there was nothing wrong w/the engine. The warranty ran out, I replaced the radiator, water pump, themostat and all the hoses. The problem continued and worsened w/time. Last fall I had the coolant checked for exhaust gases and each cylinder pressure checked w/valves closed. The coolant showed there was exhuast gases present and the pressure check pushed coolant out the overflow bottle on #'s 5 and 7. Blown head gasket. I put together a new engine and reman trans and here we are. I believe the Y pipe and cat obstruction caused the high temps from the beginning. The high temps led to the blown head gasket and here we are, 3 years later!!!

[Texas Jim]

Very interesting.

Some good info to keep in mind.

I never would have thought of looking at the "Y" pipe... but I can now visualize what you are talking about.

I see where that "COULD" cause a problem.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Interesting factual report. Thanks for sharing, and certainly something else to consider when diagnosing.

[BodybyFisher]

That is very interesting. In my discussions with the timesert people they believe that the reason we see more blown head gaskets in the rear bank is the heat build up at the firewall with the added heat from the exhaust and cat. Add an exhaust restriction and the entire bank will run hot. Traditionally, we have used the increasing temp up a long incline as an indication that a head gasket was bad.

This is a first as far as I know, excellent diagnostics and post, thanks

Where are cylinders 5 and 7 located the front bank or the rear?

[don_k]

On the N* the odd number cylinders are in the back. #'s 5 & 7 are rear drivers side. That area of the engine is also the hottest. I checked w/an IR thermometer, also it is furtherest from the water pump in the coolant flow path. Also, just to be clear, the cat was also presenting backpressure. The obstruction from the cat got worse with heatsoak and presented an ever increasing exhaust restriction with increasing exhaust flow and increasing temps. W/my IR thermometer, I was showing temps in the area of 500 deg throuout the cat area and all the way up to the rear engine bank exhaust manifold. Temps out of the front bank exhaust were in the 250 deg area.

[CarlaValentine]

I'm wondering....could a clogged cat also cause excessive moisture buildup in the exhaust?

[KHE]

The problem was most likely caused by the partially blocked catcon.