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I hate when I see these older but still good looking Cadillacs that have been traded in under the Cash for Clunkers program. To think of the engine being destroyed and the car crushed just bothers me. I realize that in some cases the trade ends up more economical for the buyer but destroying an otherwise decent car just seems wrong to me. It's not a logical reaction but more of an emotional one. For the most popular cash for clunker vehicles I wonder if some of those will now become a rare find since so many of them will not be destroyed... for example, older Ford Explorers.

My daughter has a 1996 Deville with 180K miles on it and the A/C needs to be fixed. Otherwise it is a nice looking car inside and out and last year I replaced the case half seals so now it consumes no oil at all. I have to admit, I too thought about taking advantage of the cash for clunkers program by trading to something like a new Nissan Versa. My thought was that since I'm guessing the A/C costing in the $1,500 - $2,500 range and the cash for clunkers program would provide a $4,500 discount, not paying for the A/C and using the money from the program... that nearly pays for the new car. However, even then we would still have needed to come up with another $5K or so or take out a car loan and I just wasn't ready to do either one right now. My daughter drives just a few miles per day so gas mileage isn't a huge concern right now... at least for her car. Also, since we owe nothing on the car and insurance won't provide collision coverage on such an aged / high mileage car the insurance premium we pay for her is very low.

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I hate when I see these older but still good looking Cadillacs that have been traded in under the Cash for Clunkers program. To think of the engine being destroyed and the car crushed just bothers me.

Correct me if im wrong but I believe the car is not sent to the crusher, rather it is sold to junkyards of the Gov's choosing. However the engine is "supposedly" rendered useless so the car cannot be driven again (unless of course you replace the engine).

A.J.

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I hate when I see these older but still good looking Cadillacs that have been traded in under the Cash for Clunkers program. To think of the engine being destroyed and the car crushed just bothers me.

Correct me if im wrong but I believe the car is not sent to the crusher, rather it is sold to junkyards of the Gov's choosing. However the engine is "supposedly" rendered useless so the car cannot be driven again (unless of course you replace the engine).

The engine is disabled by pouring the sodium silicate sealer mentioned in another thread in the crankcase in place of oil and run until it seizes. I've watched a video of it, and it isn't pretty. It was like Ole Yeller if they slit his throat instead of shooting him.

After the engine is disabled, any non-driveline parts can be sold off the car. It has to be crushed or shredded within a certain length of time, but I can't remember what it is.

The only passenger cars that I've seen on "Death Row" at the local dealers are 4.9 Cadillacs, Town Cars, Crown Vics, and Grand Marquis. Online, I've seen some Mustangs, Thunderbirds, Volvos, and even one each of Corvette and Maserati Biturbo. I'm not happy over either of the latter two. The majority of the victims are pickups and SUVs, with a few minivans.

Though everything about my auto enthusiasm hates this program, I'd like to know what car runs longest with the liquid glass in it. After replacing the oil with the liquid glass, it's run at 2,000 RPM (which requires progressively more throttle) until it stops. My guess is that naturally-aspirated engines that make big torque at 2,000 with a minimum number of cylinders and a single cam would run longest. That would mean probably the GM 4.3 and Jeep 4.0.

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I hate when I see these older but still good looking Cadillacs that have been traded in under the Cash for Clunkers program. To think of the engine being destroyed and the car crushed just bothers me.

Correct me if im wrong but I believe the car is not sent to the crusher, rather it is sold to junkyards of the Gov's choosing. However the engine is "supposedly" rendered useless so the car cannot be driven again (unless of course you replace the engine).

From what I understand, many cars are sent directly to the crushers for the following reasons.

1. The junkyards don't want them because the engines which are a major profit component have already been destroyed.

2. These are have a bunch of red tape tied to them such as having to be crushed in 60 days (from the time the owner turned it in) or the junkyard faces big fines.

3. There are simply too many of these disabled cars. I've heard that nearly 5% of used cars have been destroyed so that many cars that have to be destroyed in 60 days would simply overwhelm the junkyards.

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I posted this on a different thread the other day but this is a good place to post this:

I was watching Fox News the other day and they had a critic of the Cash for Clunkers program on. He said, that its going to increase the cost of used cars AND parts, especially used parts.

And he said, there are consumers out there that can't afford a new CADILLAC for example, he said, there are throngs of Cadillac lovers out there that are 2nd, 3rd and 4th owners that LOVE their cars, and this program ROBS them of that opportunity!!!!!!!!! He said that they can OWN a used Cadillac worth tens of thousands new that they otherwise could NOT afford. YES LIKE ME darn IT!!!!!!! :angry: I was on my way OUT of the house at the time and screamed YES.

This should not be surprising to ANYONE, the dems connection to the extreme far left, elections count and to me, extreme ideas need to be scrutinized closely and the we need a review the constitutionality of all laws currently on the books for agreement with our founding document, and the idea that its a living document needs to be cleared up. The press's agenda and bias's need to be written about, exposed constantly until they right their ship, yes its about freedom of speech but its about integrity, civility, accuracy and honesty. It may not be the MSM anymore, it may take going to the internet and finding unfiltered press. To watch the MSM is to watch a bias, its sickening. Years ago, we heard that the Russian people had news filtered to them from the government and that they never heard the true story, filtered/blacked out news coverage currently goes on in China, Chavez took over the radio/TV in his country, what is going on here?

I am not a holy roller by any means but America's association with Judeau-Christian beliefs needs to be correctly taught in our schools, groups in this country are constantly trying to detach us from our founder's roots

The evolution of Judeo–Christian influence on America is most commonly the subject of historians looking at the development of republicanism in America. The deep roots of Judeo–Christian values they explore go back to the Protestant Reformation, not the theological battles but the bloody struggle to win the right to translate the Bible into vernacular languages[5][6]. (see Wycliff, Tyndale,King James Bible) This led to a religious mandate for public education so that ordinary people could read the Bible. According to some authors, this development was crucial to the birth of the Enlightenment and rebellion against divine right of kings[7]. See also the English Civil War.

In the American context, historians use the term Judeo–Christian to refer to the influence of the Hebrew Bible and New Testament on Protestant thought and values, most especially the Puritan, Presbyterian and Evangelical heritage. These founding generations of Americans saw themselves as heirs to the Hebrew Bible, and its teachings on liberty, responsibility, hard work, ethics, justice, equality, a sense of choseness and an ethical mission to the world, which have become key components of the American character, what is called the “American Creed.” [8] These ideas from the Hebrew Bible, brought into American history by Protestants, are seen as underpinning the American Revolution, Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. Other authors are interested in tracing the religious beliefs of America's founding fathers, emphasizing both Jewish and Christian influence in their personal beliefs and how this was translated into the creation of American institutions and character

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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The no common sense/wasteful "Cash for Clunkers" program is just only the beginning. Brace for more of this kind of wasteful programs crammed down our throats because what we've got in Washington DC right now is a one party system. There is virtually no checks and balances to stop these guys from making dumb decisions that puts our future in jeopardy. The majority voted for change and that's what we're getting now. Unfortunately, with all this wastefulness, there will be horrible consequences down the road such as higher taxes, uncontrollable inflation, more government intrusion, larger disparity between the rich and poor, dissappearance of middle class citizens and more people depending on government handouts. We're not on the road to recovery like the government would like to have us believe. Things are going to get harder and the standard of living in the US is going to go down the tube.

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This reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode, you can hear the punchline

WELL................ YOU GOT THE CHANGE YOU VOTED FOR!!!!!

But what kind of change? Kind of reminds me of the TZ episode where HUMANS gladly went along with being unknowingly harvested to go to another planet to be part a dinner recipe

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I couldn't qualify for the "Cash For Clunkers" program.

I have fairly decent automobiles...

I want a "Cash For Old Refrigerators" and a "Cash For Old Central Air Conditioning" program. :D:D

But I don't want to pay for them...

Been kinda wanting a fancy new fridge with the water and ice dispenser in the door and my AC unit is getting kinda old......

I want GOVT SPONSORED CLUNKER PROGRAMS "I" can use, darn it. :D:D

Y'all know I am kidding.

Dontcha????

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/quote

I want a "Cash For Old Refrigerators" and a "Cash For Old Central Air Conditioning" program.

But I don't want to pay for them...

\quote

according to ABC world news, that program will start in Oct. - so hang in there & use duck tape if you need to.

When ABC news does a story on c4c, the car they use in ther graphic is a 1997 - 1999 Deville. watching a few related videos on youtube, I saw what I thought were small cars getting destroyed. I wonder what the public would have to say if ABC news shows that someone traded in a '99 4 cyl volvo as part of the program. this program was a complete mess. should have been for people trading in their 8cyl SUV's for a small car only. that volvo could have ben traded in for a SUV.

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/quote

I want a "Cash For Old Refrigerators" and a "Cash For Old Central Air Conditioning" program.

But I don't want to pay for them...

\quote

according to ABC world news, that program will start in Oct. - so hang in there & use duck tape if you need to.

I was only joking about that.

They are doing so many handouts and bailouts...I was just making fun of them. :D:D:D

But.....if you are serious about that...I will keep my ears open for what it is and what it covers...might as well take advantage of what ever you can, I reckon.

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I hate when I see these older but still good looking Cadillacs that have been traded in under the Cash for Clunkers program. To think of the engine being destroyed and the car crushed just bothers me. I realize that in some cases the trade ends up more economical for the buyer but destroying an otherwise decent car just seems wrong to me. It's not a logical reaction but more of an emotional one. For the most popular cash for clunker vehicles I wonder if some of those will now become a rare find since so many of them will not be destroyed... for example, older Ford Explorers.

My daughter has a 1996 Deville with 180K miles on it and the A/C needs to be fixed. Otherwise it is a nice looking car inside and out and last year I replaced the case half seals so now it consumes no oil at all. I have to admit, I too thought about taking advantage of the cash for clunkers program by trading to something like a new Nissan Versa. My thought was that since I'm guessing the A/C costing in the $1,500 - $2,500 range and the cash for clunkers program would provide a $4,500 discount, not paying for the A/C and using the money from the program... that nearly pays for the new car. However, even then we would still have needed to come up with another $5K or so or take out a car loan and I just wasn't ready to do either one right now. My daughter drives just a few miles per day so gas mileage isn't a huge concern right now... at least for her car. Also, since we owe nothing on the car and insurance won't provide collision coverage on such an aged / high mileage car the insurance premium we pay for her is very low.

My view is that life is too short! If one can afford it, then get a new or newer car and enjoy it. I understand what you're saying but sooner or later cars are going to end up in a junk yard. Some will survive and become classics but most will end up as scrap metal. Today I passed a guy driving an old 1950-something car and I though it was pretty cool seeing something from the days when life was much more simple.

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I hate when I see these older but still good looking Cadillacs that have been traded in under the Cash for Clunkers program. To think of the engine being destroyed and the car crushed just bothers me. I realize that in some cases the trade ends up more economical for the buyer but destroying an otherwise decent car just seems wrong to me. It's not a logical reaction but more of an emotional one. For the most popular cash for clunker vehicles I wonder if some of those will now become a rare find since so many of them will not be destroyed... for example, older Ford Explorers.

My daughter has a 1996 Deville with 180K miles on it and the A/C needs to be fixed. Otherwise it is a nice looking car inside and out and last year I replaced the case half seals so now it consumes no oil at all. I have to admit, I too thought about taking advantage of the cash for clunkers program by trading to something like a new Nissan Versa. My thought was that since I'm guessing the A/C costing in the $1,500 - $2,500 range and the cash for clunkers program would provide a $4,500 discount, not paying for the A/C and using the money from the program... that nearly pays for the new car. However, even then we would still have needed to come up with another $5K or so or take out a car loan and I just wasn't ready to do either one right now. My daughter drives just a few miles per day so gas mileage isn't a huge concern right now... at least for her car. Also, since we owe nothing on the car and insurance won't provide collision coverage on such an aged / high mileage car the insurance premium we pay for her is very low.

My view is that life is too short! If one can afford it, then get a new or newer car and enjoy it. I understand what you're saying but sooner or later cars are going to end up in a junk yard. Some will survive and become classics but most will end up as scrap metal. Today I passed a guy driving an old 1950-something car and I though it was pretty cool seeing something from the days when life was much more simple.

I wouldn't mind so much if the vehicle being scrapped is a real heap. However, it seems that quite a few of these "clunkers" appear to be perfectly good vehicles in pretty good condition. I know some folks that are realtively poor that only wish they could have some of these "clunkers" in exchange for what they are currently driving. Because they are poor, they can't take advantage of the program by trading in their true "clunker" because they would still have to come up with the cash or a loan to cover the price of a new vehicle and they simply cannot afford it. "Clunker" to me means junk... a wreck... a ragged out vehicle. Low MPG doesn't equate to "clunker" in my mind. When a vehicle reaches the end of its useful life and is truly a "clunker" then I have no problem with it heading to the crusher... it has served it's purpose and needs to be retired.

I am undecided about this program. I can see the merits of exchanging poor MPG vehicles for new good MPG vehicles. I can also see how this program can be viewed as a redistribution of wealth that costs everyone for the benefit of only some. I can go on and on listing pros / cons and I suppose that is why I am undecided. Ultimately, I wonder if the end result will be a bit of a wash. Higher car sales now, lower car sales later. Reduction in fuel consumption but more US debt to fund the program.

In any case, I really wasn't looking to discuss the political views of the program but just posted this topic because the thought had occurred to me that a good number of vehicle models may soon become rare finds that previously had been pretty common finds. And... I find it kind of sad to see some cars thrown out before their time.

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I hate when I see these older but still good looking Cadillacs that have been traded in under the Cash for Clunkers program. To think of the engine being destroyed and the car crushed just bothers me.

Correct me if im wrong but I believe the car is not sent to the crusher, rather it is sold to junkyards of the Gov's choosing. However the engine is "supposedly" rendered useless so the car cannot be driven again (unless of course you replace the engine).

OKAY, I'll correct you.

The car, it's engine and transmission are destroyed. That is my understanding. It goes further: the car is crushed. You see, if it wasn't crushed, it's windows, seats, panels etc. might once rise again to live in another polluting vehicle wherein it might be recycled. We can't have that. It's IMPORTANT that NO part of that vehicle survives to once again EVER enter the mainstream.

I wrote in a previous post about an extraordinary anomaly:

Our government is borrowing money to pay citizens to DESTROY wealth!

I cannot imagine how anyone even remotely approaching sanity might think that a good idea.

Some politics here should probably be avoided. Good luck in the polls next time around. But please, pay some attention. PLEASE?

Regards,

Warren

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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OKAY, I'll correct you.

The car, it's engine and transmission are destroyed.

That's not what the rule says.

It requires "permanent disablement of the trade-in vehicle's engine block as a part of the qualifying transaction under this program." The rule also provides that a disposal facility may wait up to 180 days before crushing the vehicle. During this time, the disposal facility may sell any part of the vehicle other than the engine block or drivetrain, and may sell the transmission, drive shaft, or rear-end, if they are sold as separate parts. The disposal facility may keep the proceeds of such sales.

The rule is available here:

http://www.cars.gov/files/official-information/rule.pdf

Now personally, I don't like destroying perfectly good cars and trucks any more than the next guy. But if we're going to speak to the particulars of a program, we need to be sure we have the facts.

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Let's not forget that the many junkyards don't want these Cash For Clunkers that have seized engines. The engine is a major profit item on a car. Also, how are the junkyards going to handle 700,000 cars in such short order? That said, I believe most of these cars will be crushed without any parts taken off.

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OKAY, I'll correct you.

The car, it's engine and transmission are destroyed.

That's not what the rule says.

It requires "permanent disablement of the trade-in vehicle's engine block as a part of the qualifying transaction under this program." The rule also provides that a disposal facility may wait up to 180 days before crushing the vehicle. During this time, the disposal facility may sell any part of the vehicle other than the engine block or drivetrain, and may sell the transmission, drive shaft, or rear-end, if they are sold as separate parts. The disposal facility may keep the proceeds of such sales.

The rule is available here:

http://www.cars.gov/files/official-information/rule.pdf

Now personally, I don't like destroying perfectly good cars and trucks any more than the next guy. But if we're going to speak to the particulars of a program, we need to be sure we have the facts.

Thanks for the link.

If I ever get around to reading the "1,000+ pages" that no one else has read, I might have a response.

Regards,

Warren

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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I'll say it again . . .

Our government borrowed money to pay citizens to DESTROY wealth!

I cannot imagine how anyone even remotely approaching sanity might think that a good idea.

Regards,

Warren

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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I just heard on TV that the $4500 received for clunkers will be taxed as regular income..... surprise, surprise, surprise

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I just heard on TV that the $4500 received for clunkers will be taxed as regular income..... surprise, surprise, surprise

I'm inclined to guess you're joking.

Right ?????

-W

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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I just heard on TV that the $4500 received for clunkers will be taxed as regular income..... surprise, surprise, surprise

I'm inclined to guess you're joking.

Right ?????

-W

nope heard that on TV just now, it will be TAXED.....Fox News that is, now, it looks like that may not be true

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2...come_rumor.html

who knows now

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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