Darla Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 I own a 2002 Cadillac DTS with less than 54,000 miles. I am the original owner. The vehicle has always been garaged, never in any type of accident and has been problem free until about 12 months ago. My current issue is an undiagnosed oil leak that I first noticed at about 48,000 miles. I am adding a quart of oil about every 1200 miles. I have been told by a local Cadillac dealership that to diagnose my issue they will need to pull the engine ($1500) and that the vehicle probably has a stuck piston that will cost $3000-6000 to repair. Can you give me any advise on what I should do? I am hesitant to spend this type of $$ on a 6 year vehicle, yet I am not interested in buying a new vehicle if there is a cheaper, better repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Pull the engine just to diagnose an oil leak? Stuck Piston?? Forgive me, but if your engine had a "stuck piston", it wouldn't run. Is this the dealership that you bought the car from new? I think that they are WAY OFF BASE here. I also think that they are trying to take advantage of you. The first thing that I would do, if I were you, would be to find a different dealer or a reputable shop in your area. That being said, the Northstar engine design does have a history of developing oil leaks at the case halves. If that is where the leak is coming from, then the engine will indeed need to be pulled to repair it. A quart every 1200 miles is not an excessive amount of oil usage. The oil leak can be annoying, but if it is not excessive, then you can choose to live with it. I had the same problem on my 1994 SLS. I put some cardboard down in the garage to soak up the oil & keep it off of the floor. Again, I would avoid the dealer that you got this misinformation from. The practice of misleading a customer just because they are female is despicable. Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Keep in mind that the dealer is in business to 1) sell cars and 2) if they can't sell you a car, sell you repairs. They are not the most economical source to get good information so you did the correct thing in coming here, good for you. Do you see an actual oil leak? Do you smell oil burning? If you do not see oil leaking or smell it, its probably not leaking at all you are probably consuming it. Now while that sounds bad, its not so bad and you can possibly correct it. Let us know a little more details, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 when did your warranty run out? did the dealer make a note of when the problem was first noticed? i wonder if excessive oil consumption is treated the same as an external leak for warranty purposes. 1200 miles per quart does not sound excessive but annoying. now, where is the oil going? leaking or burning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 A agree with both the oil burning or leaking being insignificant. Bought my car with 60K on it 8 years ago. Burned a quart of oil every 1300-1500 miles like clockwork running with 5W-30W. At around 120K started leaking around the half case and I switched to 10W -30W. Consumption and leaking was at a quart every 1000 to 1300 miles. Currently still at the same oil consumption now at 155K. Over the 8 years I guess I've spent around $250 on additional oil...which is a whole lot cheaper than an engine rebuild or repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darla Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 The dealer is not the original dealer (we moved out of that state 2+ years ago) and frankly, I don't trust any dealer repair shop. I can see evidence of the leak on the garage floor and I can smell (slightly) the odor of oil burning on the engine. What concerns me the most is about driving a vehicle with this problem is that it was first diagnosed after the "check oil level" light came on-by that point the vehicle was almost 3 quarts low and I am certain had I been in a situation where I could not stop immediately and have the issue checked I would have had big time issues with the engine. So now I am concerned about driving lengthy distances without a supply of motor oil in the trunk of the car. As to speaking to another mechanic, this week I had the oil changed and spoke with the mechanic at the shop about investigating the leak. He went to look up information and pricing and returned with the owner of the shop who told me they also could not pursue the repair without pulling the engine and referred me back to a dealership. Certainly I can search out another shop for another opinion, but can someone suggest other ways to diagnose the problem so I can appear to have some knowledge of motor vehicles when I talk with the mechanic? Thanks- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Darla, read my long post in this link, most Northstars are wet on the bottom, they leak a bit. If you are using synthetic or 5W30 go to standard 10W30. This post explains the WOT procedure, it explains how high to keep the oil, and explains the engine, Mike http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19328 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 First off, your engine holds 7.5 qts of oil and the check oil level message comes on when you are 2 qts low. You where FAR from doing any damage and should not fear any lengthy drives. The best thing to do is purchase some dye that you can add to the oil. Then when you take it in for a check they can clearly see where the leak is with a black light. Where are you seeing the oil drops? It could be a simple oil filter adapter "O" ring or a loose oil cooler line fitting. As mentioned, pulling the engine to diagnose a leak is ridiculous. As far as the oil usage, you are babying it. You need to take it out and drive it like you stole it. Beat the living hell out of it. You WILL NOT hurt it. Put it in second gear and plant your foot firmly on the floor. Don't release it till you hit about 70 MPH and then let it back down to about 50. If you saw a lot of black "smoke" (carbon) when you did this, do it again. Do this once a month and she'll love you for it and will start using a lot less oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 the "check oil level" message comes on at 2 quarts low. did you add 2 quarts and check the level and really determine it needed another quart? you still had 4.5 quarts in the motor so you never were in danger. now, you are checking the level weekly? you know you have a leak and you are waiting for the low oil message to tell you to add oil? tsk, tsk. thats not good. take care of your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 ....can someone suggest other ways to diagnose the problem so I can appear to have some knowledge of motor vehicles when I talk with the mechanic? Thanks- There is no problem to diagnose. Engines leak oil; some more than others. Gasket technology is not perfect, at least not forever. Be happy that oil is escaping and dirt is not going in! Trust the oil level sensor to produce the CHECK OIL LEVEL message if/when the oil quantity drops approximately 2 guarts below "full". At that point there will still be more than enough oil remaining to lubricate the engine. I have ignored my CHECK OIL LEVEL message for hundreds of miles because this is not an engine life or death predictor. And that is 175,000+ miles speaking emperically. How many quarts of oil could you purchase for the diagnosis/repair cost? And what is the hang-up about carrying several quarts of oil (and a funnel) on a "long" trip as a first aid kit (or a peace of mind kit)? Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick7997 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Oil is cheap.... In my 96 ETC, I switched to 15w40 Rotella, and that cured 99% of the oil seeping.... Car was also using a little oil.... On a spirited 300 mile freeway trip, I might use a quart... But there is no need to carry a case of oil with you... Every gas station in the USA carries some form of 15w40... If you're down, buy a quart, ask to borrow a funnel, and pour it in... So, what are we talking, $2 every now and then??? It'll take ten years before that adds up to some kind of crazy expensive engine repair.... Unless the leaking gets out of control, and your garage is like an oil slick every day, let it ride and enjoy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darla Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Thanks for all the input. I especially like the "drive it like you stole it" comment and will do so this weekend. Again, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPreston2001 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Well I can understand why she may want it FIXED. I too like my cars to running like new, and a oil puddle in the garage would definetely piss me off. If its "USING" oil then I could deal with that, but "LEAKING" oil has always been a something I couldnt stand. I hate leaving a stain on somebodys driveway and personally I think it takes away from the beauty of a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Well I can understand why she may want it FIXED. I too like my cars to running like new, and a oil puddle in the garage would definetely piss me off. If its "USING" oil then I could deal with that, but "LEAKING" oil has always been a something I couldnt stand. I hate leaving a stain on somebodys driveway and personally I think it takes away from the beauty of a car. I think we all agree that having spots on the driveway is something that we would prefer not to have. The question is how much does it REALLY bother you, if it were to cost $2500 to fix the DRIPS from the case half is it worth it? For $8.95, I would put one of these in my garage if it bothered me http://www.elegantice.com/drip_pand.htm Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPreston2001 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Yeah $2500 for a oil leak is definetely a repair wouldnt get fixed lol! I was just saying I could understand her disappointment about having a oil leak on a car with less than 54K on the dash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I had a '99 STS with similar problems, well, a good bit of oil usage initiallly, but no leaks or drips. The WOT procedure reduced engine oil usage quite a bit, to a very manageable level. On a 300 mile trip, I ended up using about 4 ounces of oil....but the REAL funny thing was, that on a 1000 mile trip I also ended up using about 4 ounces of oil! So don't be too concerned about the sudden appearance of the check engine oil light, especially if it took a month or more from the last oil change to appear. Be sure that wherever you are having the engine serviced, that they are not overfilling the engine with oil. This contributes (in the long run) to excessive oil consumption. I learned to NEVER fill my engine oil to the completely FULL mark, and ran it just a little bit above the ADD mark for several years. Doing this will not harm the engine in any way, and you can safely perform the WOT process with the engine oil level at this point. The engine oil level on a Northstar should ONLY be checked with the engine oil HOT, and NEVER filled to the full mark EVER, especially when the engine is cold. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Darla, I neglected to mention that I had some success in decreasing the oil leakage in my '94 SLS by switching to Pennzoil "High Mileage Vehicle Oil". It did not "cure" the leakage, but it did decrease the amount of oil leakage substantially. At first I was hesitant to switch to this oil from regular Pennzoil. But the leak was getting to become unmanageable. After the second change the leak had slowed to a "drip". Instead of getting a puddle of oil under the car, I was now getting a few quarter sized spots. Switching to the "High Mileage Vehicle" oil may not solve your leak problem, but, on the other hand, it won't hurt it either. If you don't change your own oil, perhaps you could buy some and take it to where you get your oil changed. I know that Wal-Mart carries it. I used 10W30 and it comes in gold or bronze colored containers instead of the standard Pennzoil yellow. Good Luck, Britt Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Darla, I neglected to mention that I had some success in decreasing the oil leakage in my '94 SLS by switching to Pennzoil "High Mileage Vehicle Oil". It did not "cure" the leakage, but it did decrease the amount of oil leakage substantially. At first I was hesitant to switch to this oil from regular Pennzoil. But the leak was getting to become unmanageable. After the second change the leak had slowed to a "drip". Instead of getting a puddle of oil under the car, I was now getting a few quarter sized spots. Switching to the "High Mileage Vehicle" oil may not solve your leak problem, but, on the other hand, it won't hurt it either. If you don't change your own oil, perhaps you could buy some and take it to where you get your oil changed. I know that Wal-Mart carries it. I used 10W30 and it comes in gold or bronze colored containers instead of the standard Pennzoil yellow. Good Luck, Britt This is a good idea Britt, it is my understanding that these oils have seal conditioners in them. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Do we know yet exactly what we are dignosing here yet? Is this a leak or is it excessive usage? Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navion Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 Do we know yet exactly what we are dignosing here yet? Is this a leak or is it excessive usage? Post #6 mentioned oil on the floor. Britt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Post #6 mentioned oil on the floor I'll take that as a "no" then. I doubt that there was enough oil on the floor to cause the oil light to go on. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Cane Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I have a 2002 SLS with 68000 miles and have just been told that I have a leak at both the valve cover and the case halves and that it could cost up to $4000 to repair as the engine has to be removed. Obviously this is not and option. Is it worth trying some perma tek or dural seal, or would they do more harm than good in which case I may be better to live with it till I am ready to get rid of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Since you didn't realize there was an oil leak until someone told you (a dealer trying to drum up business), I would just live with it and drive the car. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jndnaps Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 My 96 leaks oil and I'll use at least 2 QTS between oil changes. It has 127K and I'm afraid to do WOT's anymore because I'm scared I'll cause the head bolts to pull and cause the HG's to leak. I don't drive it like I stole it, I drive it like I'm a grandpa.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 My 96 leaks oil and I'll use at least 2 QTS between oil changes. It has 127K and I'm afraid to do WOT's anymore because I'm scared I'll cause the head bolts to pull and cause the HG's to leak. I don't drive it like I stole it, I drive it like I'm a grandpa.. This is just my most honest opinion. I think it is worse to baby it than to keep it opened up. I drive my 96 hard all the time and I am faithful even with 200000 miles that it is going to be fine. Now a huge tip on the oil leak. I run mine with 6.5 quarts at all times. When cold it comes up to the bottom of the hatched area on the stick, When warm it shows in the center. I have no oil drops on my driveway and I use about 2 quarts per oil change. I do WOOTs about every 6 months. The way I figure it is the cadillac desires to be driven and powerful so that is how I treat it. It makes me just want to drive it even more. Now I must also mention my Deville has always leaked some oil since I bought it but I have never attempted to do anything about it. NEver had a problem GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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