Logan Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 The door switch is actually in the outside door handle. See pic. I see no bulletins describing this problem. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Retained accessory power (RAP) is a standard feature. RAP is designed to allow the following components to be operated after the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position: • The radio • The rear compartment lid release • The fuel door release • The power windows • The cellular telephone (if equipped) • The sunroof (if equipped) RAP continues until one of the following actions occur, 10 minutes have elapsed or a door is opened The RAP system is composed of the following main components: • The body control module (PZM) • The controlled power relay • The accessory time delay relay • Several fuses -- refer to Retained Accessory Power (RAP) Schematics . When the ignition switch is cycled to the RUN position, the PZM energizes the controlled power relay and the accessory time delay relay. This action supplies power to the following components: More.....circuit description.. When the ignition switch is cycled to the RUN position, the body control module (PZM) energizes the controlled power relay and the accessory time delay relay. The PZM energizes the controlled power relay by grounding terminal B7 on CKT 755 (BLK). This condition applies battery voltage from the LH underhood fuse block BODY 3 fuse to following the rear compartment fuse block fuses: • RADIO/PHONE fuse • CLUSTER fuse • AMP fuse (DeVille) The PZM energizes the accessory time delay relay by grounding terminal A1 on CKT 707 (BLK). This condition applies battery voltage from the LH underhood fuse block WINDOWS circuit breaker via CKT 70 (PNK). Disabling When the ignition switch is cycled to the OFF position, the body control module (PZM) continues energizing the controlled power relay and the accessory time delay relay. The PZM starts a 10 minute timer. After 10 minutes, the PZM removes ground from CKT 707 (BLK) and CKT 755 (BLK), de-energizing the controlled power relay and the accessory time delay relay. This action cuts off battery voltage to the accessory circuits. The PZM monitors the position of the doors. If a door is opened, the corresponding door jamb switch closes. This action grounds the PZM door jamb input terminal. The PZM removes ground from CKT 707 (BLK) and CKT 755 (BLK), de-energizing the controlled power relay and the accessory time delay relay. This action occurs regardless of the elapsed time. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted February 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Logan, Thanks for all of the info! Any diagnosis as to what the fix might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Logan, Thanks for all of the info! Any diagnosis as to what the fix might be? Didn't you say you were having problems using the key to disarm the alarm, that you could only disarm it with the remote. I recall something with the key lock, maybe its related. I think this might be pointing to the door open switch that is part of the door handle Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted February 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Yes, the alarm does not disarm when I unlock the drivers door with the key, only if I use the remote or the passenger door key lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Does power stay on indefinately, or does it shut off after 10 minutes? What happens when you leave the relay out? - sounds like that wire mentioned earlier is grounding out leading to power staying on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I think you need to verify 10-12 minutes the system shuts down. If I read it correctly, the system shuts down if you go out passenger side door. If the system shuts down after 10-12 minutes, and it shuts down if you exit the passenger side. I'm thinking drivers side door switch. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted February 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 The power stays on until it kills the battery overnight! I pulled the relay(Accessory Time Delay relay (RAP)), located in the wire conduit on the drivers side behind the carpet at the lower front door jamb and nothing happened. It doesn't matter what door I open or how long I wait, the radio and windows stay powered up. Are you guys talking about the wire that is connected to the door lock tumbler or is there another switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 The power stays on until it kills the battery overnight! I pulled the relay(Accessory Time Delay relay (RAP)), located in the wire conduit on the drivers side behind the carpet at the lower front door jamb and nothing happened. It doesn't matter what door I open or how long I wait, the radio and windows stay powered up. Are you guys talking about the wire that is connected to the door lock tumbler or is there another switch? If you pulled the Accessory Time Delay Relay, and the windows still work. Something is very wrong. As all the power for the windows pass thru that relay. Does car have remote start or aftermarket alarm? Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted February 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 The power stays on until it kills the battery overnight! I pulled the relay(Accessory Time Delay relay (RAP)), located in the wire conduit on the drivers side behind the carpet at the lower front door jamb and nothing happened. It doesn't matter what door I open or how long I wait, the radio and windows stay powered up. Are you guys talking about the wire that is connected to the door lock tumbler or is there another switch? If you pulled the Accessory Time Delay Relay, and the windows still work. Something is very wrong. As all the power for the windows pass thru that relay. Does car have remote start or aftermarket alarm? No, I do not have any aftermarket add-ons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Strange, as the circuits are related, but in a strange way. The radio stays on because the PZM grounds the circuit. When the PZM grounds the circuit, that circuit enables the ATD relay, which then causes +12 v to be available for the windows. Theory would point to, if you remove the ATD relay. Both would now be open circuits. I guess it would be nice if you could verify you did pull the correct relay. The plug should have the following 4 wire colors. Orange, red, pink, black. I attached a picture. Is #1 where you found the ATD relay? Does the ignition switch feel funny at all when you turn the key? Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted February 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Strange, as the circuits are related, but in a strange way. The radio stays on because the PZM grounds the circuit. When the PZM grounds the circuit, that circuit enables the ATD relay, which then causes +12 v to be available for the windows. Theory would point to, if you remove the ATD relay. Both would now be open circuits. I guess it would be nice if you could verify you did pull the correct relay. The plug should have the following 4 wire colors. Orange, red, pink, black. I attached a picture. Is #1 where you found the ATD relay? Does the ignition switch feel funny at all when you turn the key? <<I guess it would be nice if you could verify you did pull the correct relay.>> That is just what my wife said!! LOL. I could not beleive it either. I looked to see if there was another relay tucked away among all of those wires and found nothing. I will dig into it again when I get home and verify that I am not screwing it up. The ign.sw. feels normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted February 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 I never checked before , but the windshield wipers also have power all of the time! Just another wrinkle in my mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 I never checked before , but the windshield wipers also have power all of the time! Just another wrinkle in my mystery. You gotta be kidding.. I'm thinking melted wire harness somewhere. Been using any Harbor Freight fuses? Anyone been working in the trunk lately? I've seen relays reinstalled in the wrong slots. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted March 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 I never checked before , but the windshield wipers also have power all of the time! Just another wrinkle in my mystery. You gotta be kidding.. I'm thinking melted wire harness somewhere. Been using any Harbor Freight fuses? Anyone been working in the trunk lately? I've seen relays reinstalled in the wrong slots. Nothing but top of the line fuses and the only work in the trunk was my replacing the PZM. I have been having trouble with the wipers. If I start the washers when the wipers are in the park position I blow a wiper fuse. If I start the washers when the wipers are already running the washers work fine and I do not blow a fuse. So today I pulled the wiper fuse from the under hood fuse block and I'll be damned if the radio and windows lost their power like they are supposed to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So is it a bad wiper switch, wiper motor or washer motor? How could this cause my radio/window problem? Come on guys, help me figure this out. And I have to add that my wife said I should have fixed the wipers in the first place and none of this would have happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthstarAJ Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Maybe an ignition switch? 12.58 second Northstar with a GM/Cadillac PCM Cadillac Technician @ Crest Cadillac Brookfield WI Hometown Washougal WA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 I've mulled over the schematics trying to connect the dots. The only clue now is all the circuits begin at the underhood fuse block. You may have to loosen the fuse block and start inspecting for melted wires. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted March 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 I've mulled over the schematics trying to connect the dots. The only clue now is all the circuits begin at the underhood fuse block. You may have to loosen the fuse block and start inspecting for melted wires. I have had problems in the past with corrosion in thr relay and fuse center under the hoo on th left side. I will dig into it and see if anything looks like a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted March 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 I've mulled over the schematics trying to connect the dots. The only clue now is all the circuits begin at the underhood fuse block. You may have to loosen the fuse block and start inspecting for melted wires. I have had problems in the past with corrosion in thr relay and fuse center under the hoo on th left side. I will dig into it and see if anything looks like a problem. I just unplugged the wiper motor, I unplugged the connector on the black cover and nothing changed I then unplugged the other connector at the end of the motor so both of them were unplugged and no change. The radio/window power only goes away when I pull the wiper fuse. Maybe the column switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 It sounds like you are getting there. Did you look at the relay center, you can pull up (with some work) the relay assemblies and look under them, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted March 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 That is my next thing to do. Hopefully there are some wire problems under there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 That is my next thing to do. Hopefully there are some wire problems under there! Disconnect the battery, there is a 10mm bolt that you need to remove to get the main module out, there are clips underneath, that I used a awl to release from the large plastic holder Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted March 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Did you look at the relay center, you can pull up (with some work) the relay assemblies and look under them, Mike Mike, which relay center are you talking about? I pulled up the fuse block located under the hood and all look good and clean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Hmm, I think its necessary to pull the assembly out and look underneath. As Logan mentioned, its possible you have something that melted. Here are photos of the relay center from when I did the ISS speed sensor and crossover gaskets, hope this helps you visualize what I am talking about, Mike Here is a photo of the relay center, you need to detach and look UNDER the one that has the WIPER relay/fuse to see if you find anything wrong I lost a bunch of photos when my laptop crashed, so I don't have a lot of photos anymore, but here is a photo that shows the relay assemblies removed fromt the black relay 'holder' shown above. Don't let this photo freak you out, I don't expect you to do this, I needed to do this to remove the electrical conduit to remove the coolant crossover. Remove ONLY the relay assembly that has the WIPER relay or fuse, you are looking for burned, melted, chafed wires. Consider that the relay you pulled out is somehow shorted internally, but I am not sure how that would provide power to the retained power circuit. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Make sure you look at your relays for corrosion like this. The green and corroded relay came from a car that was in the scrap yard. When I pulled the relay and saw the green I took it to show this board the type of corrosion that can occur. Logan has spoken about the green corrosion before as he has seen it first hand. I doubt that you have a corrosion problem, its more crossed chafed or melted wires. This is an interesting problem, I have to get the schematic out and look. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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