vdwarren Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Had a EBTCM rebuilt by A&T Elect. I asked the tech. dept. what the spacific failure was. The answer was that the modual had issues and had to have a component replaced They say the pump motor should have a ohm to specific OEM readings, and that will conclude if there are issues with it. I am not particularly happy with that report, as far as definning the modual failure, and at the last minute of having the modual for 10 days, regarding the pump motor could be questionable. AT ANY RATE, I AGAIN NEED HELP, anyone with FSM's maybe could give me a clue where and how to check the pump motor readings. I should have the EBTCM tomorrow "Wednesday" , I hope to reassemble and hold my breath that no codes will show and will again work. Help please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I looked through the 1997 FSM ELC section and there is no resistance measurement for the compressor motor. The service procedure is to make sure that enough voltage is getting to the compressor motor, and that the switch is grounding the other terminal. If the motor has at least 10 Volts across it and doesn't run, then you replace the motor. I looked at the schematic and there doesn't seem to be a method for the modules to measure the resistance in the compressor motor. That's in part because the wires directly from the terminals aren't available, and in part because you can't measure winding resistance in a running motor from DC voltage and current measurements because the motor will have "back EMF" or bucking voltage from a generator effect when it is turning. I think that they are blowing smoke when they talk about resistance. Messing with the modules, which rarely go bad, smacks of a try-this, try-that repair. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdwarren Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Thanks for your imput on this Jim. I thought when they come back with that, everything that is accessable is on printed circut that is exposed with the EBTCM off. Did not seem right at the time, so you clerified that. I was happy with the service at A&T Elect. as far as the way they handled the comunication through that period of time. But when I asked for specifics of the failure when they bench tested the module, that is what the come-back was. The bench testing was one of the things that made the reconditioning or rebuilding attractive, and. to be able to track the problem. Thanks again Jim for your speedy comeback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdwarren Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Just to let whom it may concern, I recieved the EBTCM for A&T Elect last night, installed it this morning, went to clear code T0027, it showed, I missed the first pass of codes, on the second sweep it showed "TC NO DATA" on its own. We drove the car for about three hours and probably 60 or 70 miles, no "ABS or TRACTION CONT. " light. Result, I feel that the problem may be corrected. The EBTCM had a bad component. Been a long road to get to this point. The help that Ranger, Jim, and Jason gave me was invaluable for me to go through the steps to get to the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt54 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Vern I have been reading all of the posts on your problem and have tried a couple of the suggested repairs with no change. Iam having the same basic problem but only TC0073 and traction light on all the time. tried 2 from junk yard no differance was getting ready to send mine out for testing to the same place. I know they gave you a bad report but the main thing is if you didnt do anything else to your car after you sent out the module and all you did was reinstall it and it works I guess I will give them a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdwarren Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 When A&T Electric recieved the EBTCM, they called and told me that there was a bad component, and they had to order it, that took about 4 or 5 days. They never gave me a reading of what the component did, and maybe it did multible things, but I never found out. I was not happy with that, but the rest of the service was a good experience. I sure held my breath after installing it, after all the checks and dead ends, I expected to see the dreaded lights. But to this point all went well. Have you pulled that modual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt54 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I had my orignal one pulled and had them install one I got from scrap yard in PA for $95 it didnt change anything other then empty another $125 from my wallet for its installation. called scrap yard had them send me another one and just tried grounding and plugging it in not full install still same reading tc0073. Jacob sent email says he doesnt believe its ETBCM, but I guess I have spent this much I might as well spend $55 more and make sure my orignal one is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdwarren Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Hi bigt54, Jacob had really steered me to the final result. I know the feeling that you have. One thing that came to mind on your last post, you had it removed and installed. If they r & i like I did, it is very tight where this unit is. The printed board is attached to the pump assy. You have to be very careful not to damage that board do to the close quarters. That said, did you or your mechanic work his way thru the diagnostic tree, to prove or elimanate possible problems? If you send your EBTCM to A&TE, I suggest that you make clear that you want the "Bench Test" results. I had no feed back from them on that, They said there was a bad component and was replaced. I guess that is ok, in my case it seemed to solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt54 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Vern The orignal tests $120 were done at a cad dealer they wanted $1500 parts and labor to replace. The mechanics did not replace the brake portion just the module. When they tried the second one they used the entire brake and module assembly Did you send the whole Brake pressure modulator with the Electronic brake/traction control module out for bench testing or just the module? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdwarren Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Vern The orignal tests $120 were done at a cad dealer they wanted $1500 parts and labor to replace. The mechanics did not replace the brake portion just the module. When they tried the second one they used the entire brake and module assembly Jacob is probably right that it is other than the modual. The Cad dealer pinned it down to the EBTCM, after scopeing thru the diagnostic program? I wish I could help with some secret remedy. When I called our local Cad dealer for the same part and labor it was around $1450. That is rediculas in any sents. The rebuild from A&TE at $389. then looked good, plus a three year warranty. I would appreciate your outcome, I am leaving for 2 weeks with out the computor. but will look forward to a good outcome on your problem. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcobz28 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Vern - great news! Glad to hear it's running normal. I know it was a long road and pain, but thing of how much MONEY you saved doing it yourself and going with the AT&E rebuild versus a new part + dealer install!! Bigt54 - the main thing I'm saying is... odds are if the EBTCM has already been replaced several times, that it is highly unlikely that you got all bad replacement units. Of course it's possible, but I would place my money on the problem laying elsewhere at this point. Did you check out that connector near the drivers shock tower I told you about? Have you run any of the FSM diagnostics checking voltate/shorts/grounds? Don't take the dealers word!! Could have been some lazy nut-job reading your codes and just said, "yep. TC0073, that means bad EBTCM", and never spent the time properly going through the decision tree in the FSM. If you do NOTHING else, please just do this for me. With the ignition @ accesory on position, measure the voltage between battery ground, and "Pin J" on that connector. Pin J SHOULD be +12v (or system voltage), and it is part of circuit 242 which provides power to the EBTCM off of a Maxifuse. If you are reading less than system voltage, that circuit is your problem! Let me know what you find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdwarren Posted January 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Vern - great news! Glad to hear it's running normal. I know it was a long road and pain, but thing of how much MONEY you saved doing it yourself and going with the AT&E rebuild versus a new part + dealer install!! Bigt54 - the main thing I'm saying is... odds are if the EBTCM has already been replaced several times, that it is highly unlikely that you got all bad replacement units. Of course it's possible, but I would place my money on the problem laying elsewhere at this point. Did you check out that connector near the drivers shock tower I told you about? Have you run any of the FSM diagnostics checking voltate/shorts/grounds? Don't take the dealers word!! Could have been some lazy nut-job reading your codes and just said, "yep. TC0073, that means bad EBTCM", and never spent the time properly going through the decision tree in the FSM. If you do NOTHING else, please just do this for me. With the ignition @ accesory on position, measure the voltage between battery ground, and "Pin J" on that connector. Pin J SHOULD be +12v (or system voltage), and it is part of circuit 242 which provides power to the EBTCM off of a Maxifuse. If you are reading less than system voltage, that circuit is your problem! Let me know what you find. bigt54, on the question, do you sent the complete assy, or just the EBTCM modual, its just the modual. Call A&TE and they will E-mail or FAX a prepaid shipping slip, 2nd DayAir UPS with tracking number and assigned invoice number along with a packing slip questionaire. If you get to that point, to contact www.autoecu.com or phone 866-983-6688. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 If you have the FSM, use the troubleshooting chart. There are simple workarounds for use of the Tech II and you can get a multimeter from ADAP or Radio Shack for as little as $15. These troubleshooting charts are there so that Goodwrench-trained techs can do these jobs in an hour or two. A good DIY without the GM training can get through any of them in a half day. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt54 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Vern,Jaocb,Jim Thanks for info and advise Iam going to try and do some of the tests this week I have went through and took out every fuse under hood and cleaned none looked bad as I do not have fsm I want to thank you for drawings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt54 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Jcobz Checked the voltage as you disscribed 11.96 same as battery, might be a little low as I havent driven car for a few days as now I am getting noise from the front end when I make right turns ( I now dont turn right) maybe tie rod or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt54 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 Can anyone help I need troubleshooting charts for 96 seville sls code TC0073 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt54 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Update Everything is cured I did a full install on the second replacement EBTCM they sent me cleared all codes and so far eveything is good I guess thats the down side with scrap yard parts extra installation. also thanks to all on the forum without you I would have more than likly dumped the car as I didnt want to dump another $1500 plus into it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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