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Merry Christmas to me.


Marika

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Check the water pump for what?, that its turning? That the impeller came off? The water pump was replaced 2/06 because it was leaking, <a href="http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...p;hl=water+pump" target="_blank">http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...p;hl=water+pump</a>

I am not sure why you said, the guru said to check the water pump, is that sarcasm? Reading words, sometimes sarcasm is hard to detect, are you doubting that the intake manifold gaskets are bad by making that statement "The Guru also said I should check the water pump"?

The cooling system needs to be pressure tested. Does the upper radiator hose get hard when the engine is at normal operating temp? When you take the car to a new mechanic make sure he knows the history and what was done the last time.

Does the oil in the valve covers look like coffee or honey color?

Here is the thread where you went to Brogan 10/06, you had temp sensors and related wiring, radiator, thermostat and coolant flushed. Supposedly it was holding pressure at this point BUT you had TRACER DYE in the oil. There was a statement about checking the water pump also, but I doubt its your water pump I can not see how a waterpump could cause intermittant overheating.

Here is some of the history

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This is either the piston sleeves leaking at the o-ring, the intake seals/gasket leaking at the coolant jacket, a collapsing lower radiator hose or a head gasket, PLEASE have it pressure tested. Find a radiator shop that can pressure test the cooling system, all you want are the results, just the test. Check for coolant in the OIL, either by the dye method or by analysis (Blackstone). If there is coolant in the OIL, its either the sleeve seals, intake gasket or head gasket.

I am not sure if you are ignoring me or not, but FROM the BEGINNING, I said DIAGNOSIS needs to be done, NOT replacing of thermostats. DIAGNOSIS

Yes, the water pump was replaced but that doesn't mean it's still working properly. I changed the blower motor for the cabin fans with a new OEM blower motor just a few months ago and that's already making horrible noise and failing. New parts can fail.

Yes, I know the problem needs to be DIAGNOSED, my problem is finding a mechanic that knows what the heck he/she is doing. That's always been the problem.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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Marika, water pumps either work or they don't work. Cadillac replaced the water pump you can rest assured that it was an AC DELCO pump. They either work or LEAK, its not a complicated part, the serp belt turns it, its a DUMB part.

YOU need to control the process, stop blaming DUMB mechanics.

1) find a radiator shop that can do a SIMPLE DUMB cooling system pressure test and give you a written report on it, very simple, get on the phone and make some calls you know enough to ask the questions and see how they respond call 5 places. Have them look for external leaks when the do the test. Ask them if they can determine if COOLANT is in the OIL.

2) Go to the Blackstone site and request a test kit, it will come in about a week. Have the oil changed, put oil in the test kit and send it off for analysis, specifically tell them you are looking for coolant

Call Brogan as ask them how much it would cost for them to replace the intake manifold gaskets and post that here. The 3400 is about $700 but that is MUCH MUCH more involved.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Assuming there's nothing physically wrong with the engine or other mechanical parts, what could go wrong ELECTRONICALLY that might cause this car to overheat? Is the ECM involved somehow? The reason I ask is because Eddie from the bodyshop noticed something strange this morning. After the car showed an overheat I went right to the shop and opened the hood. He said the radiator didn't feel hot and he easily removed the radiator cap, to find just a small amount of antifreeze was missing from the radiator. No antifreeze in the oil. Eddie commented that maybe there's something wrong with the car's computer??? I'm trying to explore all possibilities here.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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THANK YOU FOR YOUR REQUEST

We will send you a kit as soon as possible. You should receive it within 2-3 weeks.

If it doesn't arrive in a few weeks, give us a call. Your kit may have been lost (or worse!) along the way.

If you need to sample your oil before your kit arrives, just store it in a clean container and transfer it to ours when it arrives. Storage in a clean container will not affect the analysis. We're looking forward to doing business with you!

Click here to learn about proper sampling procedures.

(Requested a test kit from Blackstone Labs. Let's see what they come up with.)

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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The PCM can't make the car actually overheat without massive driveability problems like sluggish performance and you would see lots of codes. He may have been thinking that the temperature gauge was not right or that the PCM was somehow mimicing overheating that wasn't there, but if your car is actually overheating and boiling off coolant then that's not on the table here. He might have been thinking about the cooling fans but if the car overheats while moving over 30 mph the cooling fans aren't the cause even if they aren't working at all.

It's been a few years, but when cars first started depending on modules for control of fuel, air, and spark, some old-time mechanics looked at the module as a black box inhabited by devils, or at best a demon or two, who were responsible for all ills not apparent on a perusal under the hood. These guys are still out there, and you may have found one.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Assuming there's nothing physically wrong with the engine or other mechanical parts, what could go wrong ELECTRONICALLY that might cause this car to overheat? Is the ECM involved somehow? The reason I ask is because Eddie from the bodyshop noticed something strange this morning. After the car showed an overheat I went right to the shop and opened the hood. He said the radiator didn't feel hot and he easily removed the radiator cap, to find just a small amount of antifreeze was missing from the radiator. No antifreeze in the oil. Eddie commented that maybe there's something wrong with the car's computer??? I'm trying to explore all possibilities here.

If I recall you were getting some weird electrical responses when it was at Brogan that is why they did the coolant temp sensor wiring

This is odd. Do you have a guage or a digital display. What alerted you to an 'overheat'.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Assuming there's nothing physically wrong with the engine or other mechanical parts, what could go wrong ELECTRONICALLY that might cause this car to overheat? Is the ECM involved somehow? The reason I ask is because Eddie from the bodyshop noticed something strange this morning. After the car showed an overheat I went right to the shop and opened the hood. He said the radiator didn't feel hot and he easily removed the radiator cap, to find just a small amount of antifreeze was missing from the radiator. No antifreeze in the oil. Eddie commented that maybe there's something wrong with the car's computer??? I'm trying to explore all possibilities here.

If I recall you were getting some weird electrical responses when it was at Brogan that is why they did the coolant temp sensor wiring

This is odd. Do you have a guage or a digital display. What alerted you to an 'overheat'.

It's a digital readout on the DIC. I can actually watch the numbers (temperature) climb for the coolant. Once it hits 260F the message said, Engine Coolant Hot, Idle Engine. This stays for about 1 minute or so and then suddenly, and I mean SUDDENLY, I watch the temperature DIVE from 260F down to about 185F and them it levels off about 203F and fluctuates in an unstable way. It's almost as if something is stuck "closed" and suddenly BURSTS OPEN allowing for rapid cooling of the engine's antifreeze. Meanwhile, the thermostat was changed last week with a NEW one that I got from the dealership in Florida. Could it be the wiring harness is shorting out (again) causing the thermostat to stay CLOSED? Brogan changed the wire harness for the thermostat last year when they did the radiator.

EDIT: As the temperature rises, my heater starts to blow cold. Just thought I'd throw this in. Additionally, the heater hasn't been really producing very good heat anymore. Brogen told me the heater core was in "so-so" condition and that it might be needing replacement eventually. They came to this conclusion because the old radiator was a clogged mess when they replaced it, so apparently the heater core would be a clogged mess as well.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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clogged up radiator?

Not sure if it possible, but can you remove the thermostat and close the housing again, e.g. drive without thermostat?

It will take a while for it to heat up but it should not overheat anymore.

If it still does i would assume a blockage somewhere. flushing the coolinng system with some high pressure could help?

Just venting ideas here.

Marc.

If you are in complete control..... you are not going fast enough....

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clogged up radiator?

Not sure if it possible, but can you remove the thermostat and close the housing again, e.g. drive without thermostat?

It will take a while for it to heat up but it should not overheat anymore.

If it still does i would assume a blockage somewhere. flushing the coolinng system with some high pressure could help?

Just venting ideas here.

Marc.

Marc, the OLD radiator WAS severely clogged up which is why the dealership installed a new radiator. This all took place last year. At that time, the mechanic at the dealership warned me that I might need a new heater core if the condition of the old radiator was any indicator of what might be found inside the heater core.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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So beginning with a flush would be advisable?

Well, if the engine is leaking it would certainly make a can of worms turn into a bucket of worms. I think there comes a "point of no return" where something falls apart and it's not worth fixing it, replacing it is in the long run cheaper and more reliable.

Since we really don't know where the antifreeze is going or what's happening, I think flushing it is not a safe thing to do at this point. God only knows what type of rot is sitting inside the heater core and the engine water jackets that if stirred up might make matters much worse.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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Well if the next step is sending it to the junkyard....

Then i don't see any reason why not to try to flush it first anyway.

If you are in complete control..... you are not going fast enough....

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Well if the next step is sending it to the junkyard....

Then i don't see any reason why not to try to flush it first anyway.

I'm not saying the next step should be to send it to a junk yard, although given the expense of fixing this car it's coming close to that decision. What I AM saying is that I don't want to flush the system and cause additional, unknown corrosion, dirt etc. to be set free and start to circulate within the system itself. I don't want to flush the system if a dirty heater core is going to end up ruining and clogging up a new radiator. Much rather just install a new heater core which I ordered and actually should be arriving today.

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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If you have a blocked bypass, or air getting into the system in any way, a bubble can form under the thermostat and this mimics a sticking thermostat in terms of overheating symptoms. If the bypass is clogged, a clogged heater core will cause the same symptoms. My money for this type of thing on a 4.9 is on air coming in from an intake manifold leak.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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By disconnecting the heater core hoses at the firewall and flushing from there, you can flush the core and what comes out of the other hose will go into a bucket or on the ground. It will not go back into the engine or radiator.

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This problem is mimicking a bad thermostat, how ever knowing that you just replaced the stat, what could cause this. First, you asked if a wiring harness could 'short out' causing the thermostat to stay closed, absolutely NO.... the stat is not an electrical component.

Cyr brought up a good point, the radiator being clogged, but it was replaced.

If your heater core was plugged SOLID it would not cause overheating, you may need to flush it to get better heat but its not the cause of your overheating problem.

The VERY next time this happens and you see the TEMP rise immediately pop the hood and see if your cooling fans are running, its possible that you have a bad or a couple of bad relays and the cooling fans are NOT kicking on or kickng on intermittantly, that is my guess here.. If you are above 226 and your fans are NOT on, you have a problem with the cooling fan circuit. Let us know what you find out

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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  • 1 year later...

Read all 116 (?) posts. How did this turn out? Did she ever get the pressure test like she should have? Was it the intake man. gasket?

You guys were really generous with your time and $$$.

Mike Selinger - New Member

Lake George, NY

1990 Cadillac El Dorado 4.5

155k

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Read all 116 (?) posts. How did this turn out? Did she ever get the pressure test like she should have? Was it the intake man. gasket?

You guys were really generous with your time and $$$.

Mike Selinger - New Member

Lake George, NY

1990 Cadillac El Dorado 4.5

155k

The story sort of picks up here: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...c=17685&hl=

and carries forward here: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...c=17684&hl=

If you really want to make people safe drivers again then simply remove all the safety features from cars. No more seat belts, ABS brakes, traction control, air bags or stability control. No more anything. You'll see how quickly people will slow down and once again learn to drive like "normal" humans.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Read all 116 (?) posts. How did this turn out? Did she ever get the pressure test like she should have? Was it the intake man. gasket?

You guys were really generous with your time and $$$.

Mike Selinger - New Member

Lake George, NY

1990 Cadillac El Dorado 4.5

155k

The story sort of picks up here: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...c=17685&hl=

and carries forward here: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...c=17684&hl=

Sorry about the personal loss. As far as the '92 Caddy was concerned, I was hoping for a better outcome, but am not surprised

as to the actual ending. Just age, and sometimes neglect take their toll, and unless we can do the work ourselves it's too expensive.

My situation with my ol' Caddy isn't as serious. First, I don't have much money tied up in it, and the engine's fine. Also it's a 2nd car

or as we say up here, "a winter car." My main car is a 1999 Mercury Grand Marquis that I bought 4 years ago in showroom condition, and

remains so. I'm somwhat reluctant to mention a Ford Product on this site! My Dad and I have had a friendly rivalry about this; he's had

Caddy's going back to the '70's. I've had better luck with fullsized rear drive Fords. My '71 LTD (351 "Cleveland") '88 Lincoln Towncar (5.0ltr.),

and my current Grand Marquis have all been all over this Country, and were/are bullet proof. I do enjoy my little hotrod Caddy thoough. It's

fast & handles great.......a blast to drive. The Merc. is alot more sedate. But being practical, if the Caddy is going to cost me a ton, it's going to go.

That remains to be seen. The shop who told me that the steering rack was "leaking like crazy" may just be looking for a "mark," as when I checked

the power steering fluid today, it was fine.

I'm really impressed with the talent and knowledge of some of these folks who write in. I've already gotten a couple of great tips here. Forwarded

the information about drawing codes on the DIC by pressing the heater "Off" and "WARMER" buttons, and what these numeric codes mean, to

my Dad, who has a very low mileage '90 Fleetwood with intermittant drivability problems.

Great information to have. Also the practical knowledge of some of these guys, who still "turn wrenches" and know an awful lot. Nice to be able to access.

Regards and Good Luck.

Mike

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But being practical, if the Caddy is going to cost me a ton, it's going to go.

That remains to be seen. The shop who told me that the steering rack was "leaking like crazy" may just be looking for a "mark," as when I checked

the power steering fluid today, it was fine.

I'm really impressed with the talent and knowledge of some of these folks who write in. I've already gotten a couple of great tips here. Forwarded

the information about drawing codes on the DIC by pressing the heater "Off" and "WARMER" buttons, and what these numeric codes mean, to

my Dad, who has a very low mileage '90 Fleetwood with intermittant drivability problems.

Great information to have. Also the practical knowledge of some of these guys, who still "turn wrenches" and know an awful lot. Nice to be able to access.

Regards and Good Luck.

Mike

Your 1990 Eldorado should be a very reliable rig. The steering rack's do wear out over time but a rebuilt one sells for under $100. It was not that difficult to replace on my 1988 Eldorado. For long engine life, it is imperative to replace the coolant every 2 years and add Bars Leak like the following:

Bars_Leaks_ee_thumbnail.gif

The intake gaskets are prone to developing leaks and allowing coolant into the oil but adding Bars Leak can prevent this from happening. My 1988 Eldorado has 250k miles and has never had its intake gasket replaced. Another weak area on these cars is the transmission. Mine was replaced at 150k miles just before I bought it. The best oil to use for these engines is Shell Rotella that is often used on diesel engines. This oil is high in anti wear ZDDP and can increase the lifespan on these engines.

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But being practical, if the Caddy is going to cost me a ton, it's going to go.

That remains to be seen. The shop who told me that the steering rack was "leaking like crazy" may just be looking for a "mark," as when I checked

the power steering fluid today, it was fine.

I'm really impressed with the talent and knowledge of some of these folks who write in. I've already gotten a couple of great tips here. Forwarded

the information about drawing codes on the DIC by pressing the heater "Off" and "WARMER" buttons, and what these numeric codes mean, to

my Dad, who has a very low mileage '90 Fleetwood with intermittant drivability problems.

Great information to have. Also the practical knowledge of some of these guys, who still "turn wrenches" and know an awful lot. Nice to be able to access.

Regards and Good Luck.

Mike

Your 1990 Eldorado should be a very reliable rig. The steering rack's do wear out over time but a rebuilt one sells for under $100. It was not that difficult to replace on my 1988 Eldorado. For long engine life, it is imperative to replace the coolant every 2 years and add Bars Leak like the following:

Bars_Leaks_ee_thumbnail.gif

The intake gaskets are prone to developing leaks and allowing coolant into the oil but adding Bars Leak can prevent this from happening. My 1988 Eldorado has 250k miles and has never had its intake gasket replaced. Another weak area on these cars is the transmission. Mine was replaced at 150k miles just before I bought it. The best oil to use for these engines is Shell Rotella that is often used on diesel engines. This oil is high in anti wear ZDDP and can increase the lifespan on these engines.

Wow that is encouraging, 250k on your 1988 Eldorado. I do have some knowledge, gained from nearly 40yrs. of driving, but I'm no mechanic, for sure. I do appreciate the vehicle specific information. My 1990 4.5 is a great engine! It absolutely sounds, runs as new. I pulled the oil cap

after a long run, and there's no "blowby." Oil usage is about a quart in 1500-2000 miles. That's great at over 150k. Now I just have to watch

who I go to for any work that it may need. The shops around here seem to procure the most expensive parts they can find, and charge $80-90/hr for labor, and pad the hour using "the book."

Thanks for the tip, about the rebuilt steering rack. If could get one around that price, there's a small shop nearby that charges resonable

rates. Also, I've been told about adding the "tablets" from the GM dealer whenever the coolant gets changed.

Are you suggesting that I add some Bars Leak even when I don't see a problem, or only if I notice some coolant loss? Is this the standard "stop

leak," or a lesser dosage? I wouldn't want to "clog up" the cooling system, or cause the car to run hot. The DIC shows the coolant at acceptable temps.

Do you recommend this to prevent those leaks or to deal with them once they start to appear?

Last question: Regarding transmission service, local shops are pushing the "flush." My gut tells me just to change the fluid & filter on a car this old.

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again,

Mike

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You flush toilets...not transmissions. :D:D

Drop the pan..change or clean the screens and use the proper seal on the transmission pan when you re-assemble.

Refill with fluid .. repeat as necessary. :D:D

Another way...is to take off the line at the radiator...attach a plastic hose to it...put the end of the plastic hose in a bucket.

Start the car and let it idle...add NEW fluid thru the dipstick hole, while it pumps the old fluid out and into the bucket.

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I agree 100% with Texas Jim regarding transmission flushes so I won't repeat myself.

These engines are very long lasting if maintained properly. Using an oil that is high in anti wear ZDDP like Shell Rotella will help extend the life. Unfortunately, ZDDP concentration have been lowered significantly in the newer gasoline oils to save on costs.

Regarding Bars Leak, you should have it in the system even if you don't notice any coolant losses. The Bars Leak is a good preventative measure and will plug up small leaks that start and prevent potential catastrophic failure. Like I mentioned before, the intake manifold gaskets on these engines are prone to leaking coolant into the oil which is not so good for the crank bearings. Yes, the Bars Leak could potentially plug up the heater core but it can be easily unplugged by unhooking the hoses and flushing it with a water hose. In all the years that I’ve owned my 88 Eldorado, I have never had this problem. However, I’ve had my heater core burst and leak water all over the interior. So if the heater core has never been replaced on your car, I would recommend that it be replaced before it causes problems down the road.

If you’re wondering how much Bars Leak to use. I actually used the powder stuff which I bought at Walmart for about $1 each. I used 2 of those. Make sure you either use the powder stuff or the tablets and not the other stop leak products sold by Bars Leak. The dealer sold stuff is the same as the tablets but pricier.

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