Merry Christmas to me.

[Marika]

This morning when I came back from the diner, I noticed the temperature was 259F for my 4.9 litre, 92 Caddy. I pulled over thinking there was no antifeeze but there was plenty. I opened the recovery tank and the strong odor of exhaust gas hit me. I also noticed that the antifreeze which was fresh and bright green turned dark and almost tinged bluish.

Oh well. Anyone want a 92 Caddy with a blown engine?

[BodybyFisher]

Sorry to hear this Marika. I think this is the first 4.9 I have heard that had a head gasket problem, she is a 16 year old car now, the sleeves utilize rubber o-rings which has been a source of internal leaks. How many miles did it have? I am sorry to hear this, Mike

[Cadillac Jim]

If the rest of the car is good, and you like the car, I would get a used engine. The 4.9 is pretty inexpensive compared to the Northstar. A lot of people like the 4.9 better than the Northstar for city driving.

If you want to move up in years and down in miles, look at the postings here. Be verrrry careful if you go to eBay, of course. And, whatever you do, stay with us.

[Marika]

Sorry to hear this Marika. I think this is the first 4.9 I have heard that had a head gasket problem, she is a 16 year old car now, the sleeves utilize rubber o-rings which has been a source of internal leaks. How many miles did it have? I am sorry to hear this, Mike

The 4.9 has a little over 88,000 miles. That's it.

I should have kept my '83 Chevy Celebrity, it had close to 300,000 miles and still ran like clockwork. You can't kill those 2.8 litre engines.

[Marika]

If the rest of the car is good, and you like the car, I would get a used engine. The 4.9 is pretty inexpensive compared to the Northstar. A lot of people like the 4.9 better than the Northstar for city driving.

If you want to move up in years and down in miles, look at the postings here. Be verrrry careful if you go to eBay, of course. And, whatever you do, stay with us.

The piggy bank is empty.

[ted tcb]

Sorry to hear this.

Especially the timing.

Seeing as how money is tight, your cheapest route will be a used engine.

Still cheaper than 6 months of new car payments and new car insurance premiums.

Maybe your neighbour BBF can provide you with his wrecker resource, the one who has

come up with engines in the past?

Please keep us posted, enjoy your Christmas nontheless.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Sorry to hear. Another obvious time that we need a CaddyInfo Mobile Repair Team!

[Cadillac Jim]

If you look at Markia's history with this car, she had some really bad luck with a dealer recently, in that they did some engine work and missed early head leakage. They didn't want to back it. I'm not sure that she is comfortable in investing further with this car, and, if so, that's unfortunate.

My experience with dealerships of different makes over the years is that Cadillac has special policies and makes a special effort to make your Cadillac dealer experience a positive thing that you will remember when you buy your next car. When evaluating a dealer, I look at the morale in the waiting room. I don't take one day, one visit, or one experience as definitive. If I have bad luck of any kind with the car, I talk calmly to the service manager and give him a chance before I let myself get hot or elevate the situation. It works very well for me.

Another reality is that dealer service departments have techs that are real people working very hard on a flat rate commission. No matter what their training, they aren't all equal. A son or daughter graduating from high school or college, a family member -- or the tech himself -- in a car wreck, whatever can make the tech better or worse on any given day. Also, there's the simple fact that a bad apple can spoil the barrel and a dealer can be months or longer fixing their service department.

But, I find that trying to maintain an old car at a new car dealer doesn't necessarily get you the "Completely Satisfied" experience. I quit getting those cards from GM after my car went over 60,000 miles and GM no longer had any warranty obligation other than the cat. I also found that, if you never take the car anywhere except the dealer, you get one mind set, but if you just come to them when it is really appropriate, you get a lot more respect. Then, there's the obsolescence factor: how many dealers have a tech that is trained, experienced, and works regularly with the 4.9? The 4.5?? The Allante??? With an old car, you can find your baby at the mercy of a tech who hasn't been trained in your car or your motor but with the same flat-rate time pressure. This is quite likely a root cause for Markia's recent experience. And, it's one reason that I have a private mechanic for any engine work that I can't do myself.

AN IDEA: Taking Bruce's cue, how has an idea of how Marika can get a good 4.9, installed competently, at little or no cash?

[Marika]

I've put about $12,000 into this car in repairs and maintenance, in fact, I just spent $450 on 4 new winter tires just about 2 weeks ago. Unlike the previous owner, I have proof of everything that's been done to this car. I don't have any more money to put into this car. That's why I'm offering if someone is willing to take it off my hands I'll just get rid of it and be without a car.

[BodybyFisher]

A new engine would be between $400 and $500 and you would need an installer. I sent a 4.9 motor to Matt in North Jersey about 2 years ago, if you are interested let me know, I was able to find him an engine with 65K on it. Mike

I just called Lakewood to see what they had, they must be closed for Christmas Eve, he also has an installer.

[Marika]

A new engine would be between $400 and $500 and you would need an installer. I sent a 4.9 motor to Matt in North Jersey about 2 years ago, if you are interested let me know, I was able to find him an engine with 65K on it. Mike

I just called Lakewood to see what they had, they must be closed for Christmas Eve, he also has an installer.

Thanks for the offer. If you want to check around and see what you can come up with I'd appreciate it but please don't have anything carved in stone since I would still have to find $$$ to pay for all this. Right now I stand a better chance of pulling a rabbit from a hat.

[BodybyFisher]

A new engine would be between $400 and $500 and you would need an installer. I sent a 4.9 motor to Matt in North Jersey about 2 years ago, if you are interested let me know, I was able to find him an engine with 65K on it. Mike

I just called Lakewood to see what they had, they must be closed for Christmas Eve, he also has an installer.

Thanks for the offer. If you want to check around and see what you can come up with I'd appreciate it but please don't have anything carved in stone since I would still have to find $$$ to pay for all this. Right now I stand a better chance of pulling a rabbit from a hat.

I will check to see what I can find for you and see if his installer can do me a favor. Can you drive it to Long Island? Maybe we can have him install it, and I can look it over to make sure the details are in place.. Keep your chin up, Mike

[adallak]

Is not replacing head gasket on 4.9 cheaper than installation of an used motor? Marika, I am sorry to hear that. We all hopped you would drive your Seville for many years after all the work done on it.

[Cadillac Jim]

My two bits:

As a pushrod engine, a head gasket job is a lot easier on the 4.9 than one on an OHC engine like the Northstar. But, to do it right, you would need to pull both heads, mill them the same amount, them mill both head faces on the intake manifold to match. Since the problem is of some months duration, there is some possibility that one of the heads isn't usable, which would get you back to a used engine. Usually a valve job is thrown in while the heads are apart and this just means grinding the valve seats. By the time you get done you have a new engine except for the bottom end. A used engine may be about the same price and is a whole lot cleaner.

For a DIY who could do without the car itself for a few days, a valve job and reconditioned heads is definitely the way to go. For a non-DIY, the most practical approach is a used engine.

[Marika]

A new engine would be between $400 and $500 and you would need an installer. I sent a 4.9 motor to Matt in North Jersey about 2 years ago, if you are interested let me know, I was able to find him an engine with 65K on it. Mike

I just called Lakewood to see what they had, they must be closed for Christmas Eve, he also has an installer.

Thanks for the offer. If you want to check around and see what you can come up with I'd appreciate it but please don't have anything carved in stone since I would still have to find $$$ to pay for all this. Right now I stand a better chance of pulling a rabbit from a hat.

I will check to see what I can find for you and see if his installer can do me a favor. Can you drive it to Long Island? Maybe we can have him install it, and I can look it over to make sure the details are in place.. Keep your chin up, Mike

I can't seem to drive it for very long distances otherwise it overheats. I have AAA Plus, I think the towing on that is 100 miles or something like that.

[Marika]

My two bits:

As a pushrod engine, a head gasket job is a lot easier on the 4.9 than one on an OHC engine like the Northstar. But, to do it right, you would need to pull both heads, mill them the same amount, them mill both head faces on the intake manifold to match. Since the problem is of some months duration, there is some possibility that one of the heads isn't usable, which would get you back to a used engine. Usually a valve job is thrown in while the heads are apart and this just means grinding the valve seats. By the time you get done you have a new engine except for the bottom end. A used engine may be about the same price and is a whole lot cleaner.

For a DIY who could do without the car itself for a few days, a valve job and reconditioned heads is definitely the way to go. For a non-DIY, the most practical approach is a used engine.

You're probably right but then again it's back to the evil $$$ problem...

[Marika]

Oh boy, listen to this:

I got off the phone with the stealership. Here's what the service manager said: (hope you guys are all sitting down).

$4,500 is the maximum price to fix the head gasket. I said "WHY SO MUCH???" He said sometimes the bolts are bad and the engine has to have a timesert. Isn't this something for a Northstar, I said? I had no idea the 4.9 litre also had to have a timesert. He said, yes, they sometimes need it as well. He also said, that the maximum price includes anything else that has to be done with the engine since many times a blown head gasket will also cause other problems but he said it would cost no more than $4,500 and would probably cost less. 30 hours of labor is what the "book" lists. 6 month, 12 thousand mile warranty included.

Goodness, dear me. What next?

I'm waiting to hear back from another place to see what they say about used or rebuilding, their pricing and warranties.

Called my mother and told her I can't see her for Christmas this year and why. Oh well.

:wipetears

[cyrez00]

If you go for the 400 - 500$ option as Mike already mentioned earlier i would be willing to donate $25 in the 'Save Marika's STS' fund.

I know it isn't a lot but i'm not the most rich man on this side of the pond and at least it's a start....

Let me know if this starts to take shape and i'll settle my promise one way or the other.

Marc.

[BodybyFisher]

Oh boy, listen to this:

I got off the phone with the stealership. Here's what the service manager said: (hope you guys are all sitting down).

$4,500 is the maximum price to fix the head gasket. I said "WHY SO MUCH???" He said sometimes the bolts are bad and the engine has to have a timesert. Isn't this something for a Northstar, I said? I had no idea the 4.9 litre also had to have a timesert. He said, yes, they sometimes need it as well. He also said, that the maximum price includes anything else that has to be done with the engine since many times a blown head gasket will also cause other problems but he said it would cost no more than $4,500 and would probably cost less. 30 hours of labor is what the "book" lists. 6 month, 12 thousand mile warranty included.

Goodness, dear me. What next?

I'm waiting to hear back from another place to see what they say about used or rebuilding, their pricing and warranties.

Called my mother and told her I can't see her for Christmas this year and why. Oh well.

:wipetears

Is this Brogan?, he is full if it, didn't he say the last time that he didn't have anyone who knew the 4.9?

Not that you would even consider this, but just as a comparison to his $4500, check this:

You could buy a re-manufactured block for $1700, he is NUTS, or he doesn't want to do that job. When we used to be busy, if a tough assignment would come in, we would bid really high, if we got it great, but we really didn't want it...

<a href="http://remanufactured.com/Cadillac_Engines.htm" target="_blank">http://remanufactured.com/Cadillac_Engines.htm</a>

Don't know any of these outfits but here is a whole reman engine for $2300, ship that to an installer and have it installed for $250 to $500., he's a crack head:

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Reman-91-95...0QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Reman-91-95...0QQcmdZViewItem</a>

Marika, I will see what I can do. If I had the space, I would grab Warren, Blunted, Regis and myself and we would do this job, the problem with this is that if you replace the engine, at some point, possibly soon the tranny will crap out, mine went at 125K or so, the sprag is the weak point, I have seen it a handful of times.

My advice, given that the gas price is freaking ridiculously high and does not appear to be coming down anytime soon because Bush 1 dropped the ball and didn't get Sadaam, which created a whole host of problems, and Clinton had the Chinese sleeping in Lincoln's bedroom for campaign "donations" and allowing them to raid Los Alamos of top secrets and technology and to top it off cutting off the communications between intelligence agencies thereby weakening us under the guise of civil rights (like how I fit politics in?), I would look for a used Mini Cooper, that is what you really want, finance it, you will love it.....cheap on gas, BMW engine, cute and you can come back and make fun of us.

[Marika]

If you go for the 400 - 500$ option as Mike already mentioned earlier i would be willing to donate $25 in the 'Save Marika's STS' fund.

I know it isn't a lot but i'm not the most rich man on this side of the pond and at least it's a start....

Let me know if this starts to take shape and i'll settle my promise one way or the other.

Marc.

Gosh, that's very sweet of you

[Marika]

Oh boy, listen to this:

I got off the phone with the stealership. Here's what the service manager said: (hope you guys are all sitting down).

$4,500 is the maximum price to fix the head gasket. I said "WHY SO MUCH???" He said sometimes the bolts are bad and the engine has to have a timesert. Isn't this something for a Northstar, I said? I had no idea the 4.9 litre also had to have a timesert. He said, yes, they sometimes need it as well. He also said, that the maximum price includes anything else that has to be done with the engine since many times a blown head gasket will also cause other problems but he said it would cost no more than $4,500 and would probably cost less. 30 hours of labor is what the "book" lists. 6 month, 12 thousand mile warranty included.

Goodness, dear me. What next?

I'm waiting to hear back from another place to see what they say about used or rebuilding, their pricing and warranties.

Called my mother and told her I can't see her for Christmas this year and why. Oh well.

:wipetears

Is this Brogan?, he is full if it, didn't he say the last time that he didnt have anyone who knew the 4.9?

Not that you would even consider this, but just as a comparison to his $4500, check this:

You could buy a remanufactured block for $1700, he is NUTS, or he doesnt want to do that job. When we used to be busy, if a tough assignment would come in, we would bid really high, if we got it great, but we really didn't want it...

http://remanufactured.com/Cadillac_Engines.htm

Don't know any of these outfits but here is a whole reman engine:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Reman-91-95...0QQcmdZViewItem

Marika, I will see what I can do. If I had the space, I would grab Warren, Blunted, Regis and myself and we would do this job, the problem with this is that if you replace the engine, at some point, possibly soon the tranny will crap out, mine went at 125K or so, the sprag is the weak point, I have seen it a handful of times.

My advice, given that the gas price is freaking ridiculously high and does not appear to be coming down anytime soon because Bush 1 dropped the ball and didn't get Sadaam, which created a whole host of problems, and Clinton had the Chinese sleeping in Lincoln's bedroom for campaign "donations" (like how I fit politics in?), I would look for a used Mini Cooper, that is what you really want, finance it, you will love it.....cheap on gas, BMW engine, cute and you can come back and make fun of us.

Love the political stickings....LOL

I've been looking at used cars, but I think, given the way finances are, I'll be taking the bus for a while. My boss didn't give me a raise last year or this year and jobs are hard to come by in New Jersey so it's the bus for me, at least for a while. My offer still stands, come around with a tow truck and this '92 caddy is yours.

[KevinW]

The engine's coolant level cannot be assessed reliably by examining the level in the recovery tank. What is the level in the radiator? Is the oil level normal or high? Failure of the intake manifold gasket is the most likely reason for internal coolant loss (does not require engine replacement or rebuilding). Hopefully, the problem is just a stuck thermostat...

[Marika]

The engine's coolant level cannot be assessed reliably by examining the level in the recovery tank. What is the level in the radiator? Is the oil level normal or high? Failure of the intake manifold gasket is the most likely reason for internal coolant loss (does not require engine replacement or rebuilding). Hopefully, the problem is just a stuck thermostat...

After I stopped the car the second time, when I got home, the level had disappeared and the recovery tank was nearly empty. I waited for the engine to cool, pulled out the oil dip stick and the oil looks a bit chocolate-like.

At the oil fill hole at the top of the engine, there is all sorts of sludge that looks greenish/brownish.

Edit: I can always take pictures tomorrow. It's too dark outside now.

[BodybyFisher]

That doesnt sound good at all. Hey do you recall if they did the intake manifold gasket as Kevin W suggested?, I recall the guru, always going that direction, you have been having a problem with this for a long time.

The only problem with the above being the problem is that you said you smelled exhaust in the tank, is that right?, when its cool, take the radiator cap off and have a look or did you already

[BodybyFisher]

I will put in $50 for your cause, Merry Christmas, Mawh

Not to appear to out-do you Cyr, it will probably cost you $25 to send it, I liked your thinking, that was a very cool idea,