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Crank sensor? replaced both...still get codes to change


SIXXDOGG

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Good evening everyone. What a wonderful site this is...and I am so happy I found it!

My question is kinda messed up...and I am going to do my best to explain this....

I have a 1998 STS...and I was driving one day last week...and the techometer dropped to 0....and the car started to ride really rough....took it into the shop....codes said to replace crank shift sens....had both replaced...2 days later...started to do the same thing...this time I took it to a Cady dealer...after a couple hours they came out and told me they replaced the crank shift sensors....lol...after I told them I already did that....they said that this time they FIXED the issue....I was like...ok......but Ill see ya tomorrow!!!!!

Which leads me to today.....as soon as I left last nite.....I stalled....tech dropped to 0....and it drove like a piece of poo all the way home.

Brought her in today.....they checked the grounds for the cranks sensors....put a used modual on there.....took her out for a test drive....BAM...same codes......to change the darn crank shift sensors...

They told me they do not know what else to do.......my friend who is a great mechanic who actually installed this motor in this car....since the other one had blown heads....said that the only thing left this could be would be the computer. I was wondering how much this part would be.....or if anyone here has had this problem before....or what can i do to fix this?

Thank you so much and have a wonderful nite everyone.

Nick from Niagara Falls Canada

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Post the codes.

There are two crankshaft sensors, as you know. There is also a camshaft sensor.

I'm getting the feeling that this is not too difficult a problem to solve.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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They swapped in a used ignition module, is that what you said?

The answer to your question. A computer for your car is $105 for a Delphi and $192 for an AC Delco at www.rockauto.com There is a statement that it might require programming, but I am not sure about that. Check rockauto

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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....my friend who is a great mechanic who actually installed this motor in this car....

When? How many miles/days between installing the engine and the onset of this stalling problem?

Jim

Drive your car.

Use your cell phone.

CHOOSE ONE !

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Thanx so much for all the replies...The motor was replaced 14 months ago.....and ran great untill the past couple weeks when this issue started. It is a northstar 1998-1999 cadi 4.6

I have the codes and here they are....

p1599

p1320

p1350

p1375

p1377

Now....once again....I started the car this morning...ran great for about 15 min.....then started to hesitate....along with the RPM.....then the RPM dropped to 0.....and the car still ran....but really rough.......then she stalled at the lights....started her up.......did the same thing again...this time within a few min.....

Thanx again....and anything other info I am leaving out....please ask.....Have a wonderful day

Nick

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I left out the modual part....They told me at the dealer...they put in a used modual.....took about 10 min to install it....car did the exact same thing after running for about 15 min.....

I am not sure if it was an ingnition modual....I can not remember what he said....but I do know that the price of one is about 900$...hope that helps...

Nick

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1599: Stall detected.

1320: The Ignition Control Module creates a 4X signal and a 24X signal that is used by the PCM for ignition and fuel control. If the PCM does not receive 4X reference pulses from the Ignition Control Module for more than 0.4 second while the engine is running, DTC P1320 is set.

1350: Under normal system operation when the key is turned ON and until engine RPM is high enough for the PCM to control spark, the PCM will open the bypass circuit (CKT 424) to the Ignition Control Module, the IC module will then ground the Ignition Control circuit (CKT 423). This is called module mode because the IC module is controlling spark. Once the engine speed is high enough (about 65 RPM), 4X reference pulses are received and no PCM faults are detected the PCM will close the bypass line and in response the IC module will unground the IC circuit, this allows PCM control of spark. This is called the ignition control mode. This diagnostic test is used to check for faults in both the bypass circuit and the IC circuit. To check both circuits this diagnostic runs two tests, one during crank and one while running. If Ignition Control pulses are detected by the PCM on the IC line while in module mode (cranking) or if no Ignition Control pulses are detected by the PCM while in ignition control mode (running) DTC P1350 will set.

1375: This diagnostic test checks for 24X signal at a logic high condition. The fault could be induced by the failure of either Crankshaft Position A or B Sensor input signal to the Ignition Control Module. Under such a condition, the Ignition Control Module would force the 24X signal high. This DTC will also set if the 24X signal is shorted to voltage externally. If either condition is met DTC P1375 is set.

1377: This diagnostic test checks to see if there are eight 4X reference pulses between CAM signals. Do not attempt diagnosis or repair unless the customer is experiencing driveability problems associated with this DTC.

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Thanx so much for posting detailed codes like that!!!!

I have no idea how to fix cars....so this is really tough for me to understand.....any advice on what you think the problem may be?

Nick

We can help you quite a bit, even if it is to get you knowledgable before you go to the shop. You know the statements, Knowledge is Power and Forewarned is Forearmed, they are true.

Your car has an on board computer that dumps codes, we can show you were to uncover what they mean. Logans descriptions were quite good not just the one liner description that is typical, very good info.

If I were you, I would have cadillac swap in a PCM to see if that solves your problem. You may have a PCM that deflubiates when its hot. It sounds to me like they swapped in an ignition module but get confirmation on that its probably in their computer system. If they did swap out the PCM and put in a used one, then have them swap out the ignition module. Let us know what they swapped out, my guess is it was the ignition module given the codes you have...

PS: deflubiates = F's up or malfunctions, this was a ship yard term that was used as an everyday description when I worked there.. :lol: its not a word I dont believe :lol:

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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1599: Stall detected.

1320: The Ignition Control Module creates a 4X signal and a 24X signal that is used by the PCM for ignition and fuel control. If the PCM does not receive 4X reference pulses from the Ignition Control Module for more than 0.4 second while the engine is running, DTC P1320 is set.

1350: Under normal system operation when the key is turned ON and until engine RPM is high enough for the PCM to control spark, the PCM will open the bypass circuit (CKT 424) to the Ignition Control Module, the IC module will then ground the Ignition Control circuit (CKT 423). This is called module mode because the IC module is controlling spark. Once the engine speed is high enough (about 65 RPM), 4X reference pulses are received and no PCM faults are detected the PCM will close the bypass line and in response the IC module will unground the IC circuit, this allows PCM control of spark. This is called the ignition control mode. This diagnostic test is used to check for faults in both the bypass circuit and the IC circuit. To check both circuits this diagnostic runs two tests, one during crank and one while running. If Ignition Control pulses are detected by the PCM on the IC line while in module mode (cranking) or if no Ignition Control pulses are detected by the PCM while in ignition control mode (running) DTC P1350 will set.

1375: This diagnostic test checks for 24X signal at a logic high condition. The fault could be induced by the failure of either Crankshaft Position A or B Sensor input signal to the Ignition Control Module. Under such a condition, the Ignition Control Module would force the 24X signal high. This DTC will also set if the 24X signal is shorted to voltage externally. If either condition is met DTC P1375 is set.

1377: This diagnostic test checks to see if there are eight 4X reference pulses between CAM signals. Do not attempt diagnosis or repair unless the customer is experiencing driveability problems associated with this DTC.

I know all about the codes you listed. :D

Have you had any work performed on the car before this occured?

I had all these codes in my car once. I made a mistake when I was working on it.

12.58 second Northstar with a GM/Cadillac PCM

Cadillac Technician @ Crest Cadillac Brookfield WI

Hometown Washougal WA

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It sounds to me like a wiring problem between the ignition module and the PCM.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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1599: Stall detected.

1320: The Ignition Control Module creates a 4X signal and a 24X signal that is used by the PCM for ignition and fuel control. If the PCM does not receive 4X reference pulses from the Ignition Control Module for more than 0.4 second while the engine is running, DTC P1320 is set.

1350: Under normal system operation when the key is turned ON and until engine RPM is high enough for the PCM to control spark, the PCM will open the bypass circuit (CKT 424) to the Ignition Control Module, the IC module will then ground the Ignition Control circuit (CKT 423). This is called module mode because the IC module is controlling spark. Once the engine speed is high enough (about 65 RPM), 4X reference pulses are received and no PCM faults are detected the PCM will close the bypass line and in response the IC module will unground the IC circuit, this allows PCM control of spark. This is called the ignition control mode. This diagnostic test is used to check for faults in both the bypass circuit and the IC circuit. To check both circuits this diagnostic runs two tests, one during crank and one while running. If Ignition Control pulses are detected by the PCM on the IC line while in module mode (cranking) or if no Ignition Control pulses are detected by the PCM while in ignition control mode (running) DTC P1350 will set.

1375: This diagnostic test checks for 24X signal at a logic high condition. The fault could be induced by the failure of either Crankshaft Position A or B Sensor input signal to the Ignition Control Module. Under such a condition, the Ignition Control Module would force the 24X signal high. This DTC will also set if the 24X signal is shorted to voltage externally. If either condition is met DTC P1375 is set.

1377: This diagnostic test checks to see if there are eight 4X reference pulses between CAM signals. Do not attempt diagnosis or repair unless the customer is experiencing driveability problems associated with this DTC.

I know all about the codes you listed. :D

Have you had any work performed on the car before this occured?

I had all these codes in my car once. I made a mistake when I was working on it.

AJ we are not about suspense over here or holding back, which you have done a few times since you have materialized. Time is Money man, as you know from being a CLASS A Mechanic at GM. Give man give..... WHAT do you KNOW, WHAT mistake did you make, and WHAT was the answer..? I realize you are a busy man over there at GM being a mechanic but try to share a bit.... :lol:

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Hi again! No work done on the car.......had a short in the tail lights......had to replace some wiring after a bulb blew.....had a new horn installed.....thats about it......the bulb issue was a few weeks before I started to have this issue.......and the horn was fixed at the same time this issue is trying to get solved....

I called all around today...400$ for a pcm....150 to install it.....if its not the problem...I am stuck with it....

For the person that listed those wonderful prices.....where did you get the info from and do they ship to Canada?

Was in the car about 20 min ago....drove for about 15...then it started again........Where is the PCM located? Maybe its dirty?....or I can hit it? lol....Someonce also mentioned as soon as it warms up (the pcm)....the PCM may be failing.....and I could have sworn I smelt burning when I shut the car off.....

Thanx again...so far this has all been so much help.

Nick

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Hi again! No work done on the car.......had a short in the tail lights......had to replace some wiring after a bulb blew.....had a new horn installed.....thats about it......the bulb issue was a few weeks before I started to have this issue.......and the horn was fixed at the same time this issue is trying to get solved....

I called all around today...400$ for a pcm....150 to install it.....if its not the problem...I am stuck with it....

For the person that listed those wonderful prices.....where did you get the info from and do they ship to Canada?

Was in the car about 20 min ago....drove for about 15...then it started again........Where is the PCM located? Maybe its dirty?....or I can hit it? lol....Someonce also mentioned as soon as it warms up (the pcm)....the PCM may be failing.....and I could have sworn I smelt burning when I shut the car off.....

Thanx again...so far this has all been so much help.

Nick

Buy one and install it yourself, $400 is crazy, we need to look into the programming. IF, we can get the EXACT part number you might be able to find a used one and swap it in after swapping your prom in without needing to program it. Maybe others will chime in with more options for you.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I know....thats a retarded price....I called up 3 places today.....pretty much the same....plus 100 to program....and 100 to install it....

I wouldnt know how to do it myself...but if I could get one like you said.....my friend who works at a garage in town......who has been working on my cars for years....only charges 60$ per hour.....and dosnt mark up parts like the darn dealerships.....

Is it possible that it could be a wire coming out of the computer that I smell burning?? If so....is it easy to test the wires.....I mean easy to access them.. Where is the c omputer located in my car?

Nick

Thanx so much for the help

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1599: Stall detected.

1320: The Ignition Control Module creates a 4X signal and a 24X signal that is used by the PCM for ignition and fuel control. If the PCM does not receive 4X reference pulses from the Ignition Control Module for more than 0.4 second while the engine is running, DTC P1320 is set.

1350: Under normal system operation when the key is turned ON and until engine RPM is high enough for the PCM to control spark, the PCM will open the bypass circuit (CKT 424) to the Ignition Control Module, the IC module will then ground the Ignition Control circuit (CKT 423). This is called module mode because the IC module is controlling spark. Once the engine speed is high enough (about 65 RPM), 4X reference pulses are received and no PCM faults are detected the PCM will close the bypass line and in response the IC module will unground the IC circuit, this allows PCM control of spark. This is called the ignition control mode. This diagnostic test is used to check for faults in both the bypass circuit and the IC circuit. To check both circuits this diagnostic runs two tests, one during crank and one while running. If Ignition Control pulses are detected by the PCM on the IC line while in module mode (cranking) or if no Ignition Control pulses are detected by the PCM while in ignition control mode (running) DTC P1350 will set.

1375: This diagnostic test checks for 24X signal at a logic high condition. The fault could be induced by the failure of either Crankshaft Position A or B Sensor input signal to the Ignition Control Module. Under such a condition, the Ignition Control Module would force the 24X signal high. This DTC will also set if the 24X signal is shorted to voltage externally. If either condition is met DTC P1375 is set.

1377: This diagnostic test checks to see if there are eight 4X reference pulses between CAM signals. Do not attempt diagnosis or repair unless the customer is experiencing driveability problems associated with this DTC.

I know all about the codes you listed. :D

Have you had any work performed on the car before this occured?

I had all these codes in my car once. I made a mistake when I was working on it.

AJ we are not about suspense over here or holding back, which you have done a few times since you have materialized. Time is Money man, as you know from being a CLASS A Mechanic at GM. Give man give..... WHAT do you KNOW, WHAT mistake did you make, and WHAT was the answer..? I realize you are a busy man over there at GM being a mechanic but try to share a bit.... :lol:

I had a cam in time, but the gear was on wrong. The DTC's are actually related to cam and crank correlation. This does not mean you have a bad sensor. I have several training books and it seem that GM changed the wording for the DTC's from year to year.

If the engine has NOT BEEN A PART it is not likely to be a mechanical issue.

12.58 second Northstar with a GM/Cadillac PCM

Cadillac Technician @ Crest Cadillac Brookfield WI

Hometown Washougal WA

avatar9513_1.gif

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I know....thats a retarded price....I called up 3 places today.....pretty much the same....plus 100 to program....and 100 to install it....

I wouldnt know how to do it myself...but if I could get one like you said.....my friend who works at a garage in town......who has been working on my cars for years....only charges 60$ per hour.....and dosnt mark up parts like the darn dealerships.....

Is it possible that it could be a wire coming out of the computer that I smell burning?? If so....is it easy to test the wires.....I mean easy to access them.. Where is the c omputer located in my car?

Nick

Thanx so much for the help

I can send you a stock loaded PCM for $100

I can send you a performance tune for $200

I don't think it is the PCM.

The PCM is a Plug and Play. No Setup required

12.58 second Northstar with a GM/Cadillac PCM

Cadillac Technician @ Crest Cadillac Brookfield WI

Hometown Washougal WA

avatar9513_1.gif

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Hi again! No work done on the car.......had a short in the tail lights......had to replace some wiring after a bulb blew.....had a new horn installed.....thats about it......the bulb issue was a few weeks before I started to have this issue.......and the horn was fixed at the same time this issue is trying to get solved....

I called all around today...400$ for a pcm....150 to install it.....if its not the problem...I am stuck with it....

For the person that listed those wonderful prices.....where did you get the info from and do they ship to Canada?

Was in the car about 20 min ago....drove for about 15...then it started again........Where is the PCM located? Maybe its dirty?....or I can hit it? lol....Someonce also mentioned as soon as it warms up (the pcm)....the PCM may be failing.....and I could have sworn I smelt burning when I shut the car off.....

Thanx again...so far this has all been so much help.

Nick

Is this a Seville?

I have a very old and very easy test for this condition in a old training book. I will look when I get home tonight. I WILL POST IT THEN :D

12.58 second Northstar with a GM/Cadillac PCM

Cadillac Technician @ Crest Cadillac Brookfield WI

Hometown Washougal WA

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Man....u guys here are so smart..so helpful....Thanx so much.

That price....you got a deal....I am going to do the test first....and if its the pcm......we can hook up via msn or phone....get are addies....and Ill send the cashola over!!!

What do you mean by performace loaded??

My car is a 1998 sts

I am located in St Catharines Ontario Canada....u?

Nick

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Man....u guys here are so smart..so helpful....Thanx so much.

That price....you got a deal....I am going to do the test first....and if its the pcm......we can hook up via msn or phone....get are addies....and Ill send the cashola over!!!

What do you mean by performace loaded??

My car is a 1998 sts

I am located in St Catharines Ontario Canada....u?

Nick

I hat to do this I like to keep things seperate, but you asked.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/north...tar-tuning.html

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/north...uning-only.html

12.58 second Northstar with a GM/Cadillac PCM

Cadillac Technician @ Crest Cadillac Brookfield WI

Hometown Washougal WA

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Try a cam sensor.

I can not find the quick test.

The cam sensor or ingnition module are the ouly two that will make all the codes.

Other than an internal engine problem

12.58 second Northstar with a GM/Cadillac PCM

Cadillac Technician @ Crest Cadillac Brookfield WI

Hometown Washougal WA

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Thanx so much.....so since they tried a used modual on the car....and it did the same thing......unless that modual was messed up also....and did the exact same thing...spitting out the exact same codes....Ill try the cam sensor....I hope this works......do you not think at all it could be the PCM?

Nick

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