JimD Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 So if the normal spec is 1350 to 1950, does the fact that mine is 2600 raise a red flag?Apples and oranges. Your sensor should be 1,650 Ohms, plus or minus 300 Ohms. Your 'failed' sensor is reading 2.6M, correct?: 2.6M is = 2,600,000 Ohms. Or, could it be drifting badly when its hot?The value will change with temperature, but should stay within the range the PCM expects to see. When you have it all buttoned up and running like new, mail me the old sensor. I'll do an autopsy. ....I need to hold the small "island gasket' in place when I put the cover back on, does the use of white lithium grease in a tranny sound right?My favorite gasket holder is a thin coat of vaseline. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Thanks Jim, I will send you the sensor as soon as I can. Based on the reading, it appears my sensor was fried? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 ....I just got home from work so I couldn't test the new one, but the old one measured 2.6M ohms. It would not measure it in the K scale, it needed the M scale to read at all. Can you explain what that means?I'm not familiar with that VOM but it sounds like the display is blanked if the value is out of range maybe because the number of display characters is limited. It can display 2.6 with 3 characters. To display the same value using the "K" scale would require 5 characters (2,600). Just one possible reason. I looked in my manual and it said that spec is 1350 to 1950 ohms. I will test the new one tomorrow and post my findings.Same value my '98 manual provides. Thank you for thinking about this. I am also going to check the reading at the plug to make sure my wiring is ok..Very good idea. Hook up the sensor connector and check for the proper resistance value across the pins in the round connector. Everybody needs new tools. I would not hook up the sensor and then check the resistance across the pins. If the sensor is plugged in, the resistance of the entire PCM circut will be tested which is not the sensor resistance value. Also, there is a risk in damaging the PCM due to the current from the meter backfeeding into the PCM circuitry. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Kevin: The round connector would have to open to do the continuity check I recommended. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 You are confusing me guys. I have the new sensor in with a .037 air gap (more about that later) installed in the transaxle. This is what I plan to do: 1) I plan on disconnecting the sensor from the harness and testing its resistance, then 2) Connecting it to the internal wiring hardness (inside the tranny), and with the ROUND main plug at the tranny disconnected, touching the appropriate ISS pins in the tranny side of the round plug to test the sensor and wiring and compare the resistance. This test I hope will confirm that my wiring is AOK, I plan to shake it the wiring also...during a continuity test with the sensor and round plug disconnected.. I think this sounds ok, what do you guys think? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 With regard to the air gap. Last night on the commute home, I was reading the manual. The manual calls for a 0.045 - 0.109 air gap. Before I removed my old sensor, I measured the air gap, it was a snug 0.037. 0.038 would not fit. Now the dilemma, do I use the old 0.037 or move the air gap up to 0.045. Why can't this crap be easy and straightforward? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 ....I think this sounds ok, what do you guys think? That's exactly what I would do. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 With regard to the air gap. Last night on the commute home, I was reading the manual. The manual calls for a 0.045 - 0.109 air gap. Before I removed my old sensor, I measured the air gap, it was a snug 0.037. 0.038 would not fit. Now the dilemma, do I use the old 0.037 or move the air gap up to 0.045. Why can't this crap be easy and straightforward? The only potential problem I see is - has the Service Manual spec. been revised? I cannot find the spec. for a gap in my Service Manuals. Another way to look at the numbers you have is this; the preferred gap would be 0.077" with a tolerance of plus or minus 0.032". Your target gap would be 0.077". If I am out of line here, do not hesitate to let me know. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 With regard to the air gap. Last night on the commute home, I was reading the manual. The manual calls for a 0.045 - 0.109 air gap. Before I removed my old sensor, I measured the air gap, it was a snug 0.037. 0.038 would not fit. Now the dilemma, do I use the old 0.037 or move the air gap up to 0.045. Why can't this crap be easy and straightforward? The only potential problem I see is - has the Service Manual spec. been revised? I cannot find the spec. for a gap in my Service Manuals. Another way to look at the numbers you have is this; the preferred gap would be 0.077" with a tolerance of plus or minus 0.032". Your target gap would be 0.077". If I am out of line here, do not hesitate to let me know. Jim, if you get a chance, take a look in the code description P0717 section of your report (Section 7A in my manual). The gap is in the circuit description paragraph, Thanks, Mike So if .077 is the target (or mid-point of the range I cited above), then I am seriously close at .037, so increasing to .045 would not be a problem, the way I look at it, right? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 I really dont need the bolts back...you can forward them to FS98SIM... The GM online service manual really only goes back to 1998. This is what it shows this under PO716 and PO717.. The Automatic Transmission Input (Shaft) Speed Sensor (A/T ISS) is a permanent magnet with a coil of wire wound around it. The A/T ISS mounts in the transmission case facing the drive sprocket of the input shaft. An air gap of 1.14-2.77 mm (0.045-0.109 in) between the sensor and drive sprocket must be maintained in order to transmit an accurate AC voltage. Sensor voltage varies from 0.5 volts AC at 100 RPM to more than 100 volts at 8000 RPM. This diagnostic monitors the A/T ISS circuit. The circuit may be functional but not in the normal operating range. This diagnostic indicates stuck, erratic, or intermittent values, indicating poor performance of the system. The A/T ISS has a resistance value of 1300-1950 ohms. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Kevin: The round connector would have to open to do the continuity check I recommended. Got it! I knew there was something I was missing. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Jim, if you get a chance, take a look in the code description P0717 section of your report (Section 7A in my manual). The gap is in the circuit description paragraph, Thanks, Mike So if .077 is the target (or mid-point of the range I cited above), then I am seriously close at .037, so increasing to .045 would not be a problem, the way I look at it, right? Ok. Sensor air gap from '98 (paper) Service Manual, pg. 7-53 = 0.045" to 0.109". Sensor resistance = 1,300 Ohms to 1,950 Ohms. The '04 (paper) manual says nothing about air gap and the sensor resistance is spec'd. at 1,260 Ohms to 1,872 Ohms. If I was doing the install, I would aim for an air gap in the center of the range. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Jim, if you get a chance, take a look in the code description P0717 section of your report (Section 7A in my manual). The gap is in the circuit description paragraph, Thanks, Mike So if .077 is the target (or mid-point of the range I cited above), then I am seriously close at .037, so increasing to .045 would not be a problem, the way I look at it, right? Ok. Sensor air gap from '98 (paper) Service Manual, pg. 7-53 = 0.045" to 0.109". Sensor resistance = 1,300 Ohms to 1,950 Ohms. The '04 (paper) manual says nothing about air gap and the sensor resistance is spec'd. at 1,260 Ohms to 1,872 Ohms. If I was doing the install, I would aim for an air gap in the center of the range. Will do, I would think that if I had the air gap closer, it would induct a higher voltage than if the gap was further away. You being the coil/electronics expert does my thinking compute? I will go to the mid range of the air gap all the while being nervous that I was at .037 before.., I have an urge to go to .045 as you can imagine Just to confirm I am using a combination of feeler gauges to set this gap. Gmotors is sending me the remaining parts to be received Friday (tranny mount, spacer plate gaskets, sprocket support to case cover gasket, CAT flange gasket, TCC solenoid, Pressure Control solenoid and rear CAT O2 sensor (that I trashed pulling my muffler system back, duh!) The only question now is can I get it assembled by July 2 to drive to Virginia Beach and Charlottesville, Virginia I am going to retire on this job, as it is I am gaining weight Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEl01 Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 darn guys, ya'll are making ME nervious! Duff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 By the way, I ordered an ATRA 4T80-E technical rebuilding manual today.. When I took the case cover off, a thrust bearing fell out, I need to know which way it goes back in.. If you run into any trouble getting that, I have the 1995 "VOLUME 1 - POWERTRAIN" manual GMP/95-EK-1. It contains complete inspection/reassembly instructions for the 4T80-E (and 4T60-E). Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 By the way, I ordered an ATRA 4T80-E technical rebuilding manual today.. When I took the case cover off, a thrust bearing fell out, I need to know which way it goes back in.. If you run into any trouble getting that, I have the 1995 "VOLUME 1 - POWERTRAIN" manual GMP/95-EK-1. It contains complete inspection/reassembly instructions for the 4T80-E (and 4T60-E). Regards, Warren Cool Warren, Thanks Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 darn guys, ya'll are making ME nervious! Why is that? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 This series is getting better than waiting to see what happens on the Sopranos ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 The only question now is can I get it assembled by July 2 to drive to Virginia Beach and Charlottesville, Virginia I am going to retire on this job, as it is I am gaining weight You'll have it done before then. If you're gaining weight during the repair, you must be drinking too much beer... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 This series is getting better than waiting to see what happens on the Sopranos ! I promise a betta ending Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 The only question now is can I get it assembled by July 2 to drive to Virginia Beach and Charlottesville, Virginia I am going to retire on this job, as it is I am gaining weight You'll have it done before then. If you're gaining weight during the repair, you must be drinking too much beer... Isn't it funny how you can work in the heat all day drinking beer and not feel the effects of it? I once did a hub assembly on my 74 Eldorado in West Palm Beach in August and went through two cases of beer with my friend and felt nothing... That Eldorado had a massive front end.... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 I directly measured my new ISS sensor tonight. It measured 1410 ohms at about 70 degrees... The range is 1,260 Ohms to 1,872 Ohms, so I am looking good. Have not checked the wiring yet, will post the results Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEl01 Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 This series is getting better than waiting to see what happens on the Sopranos ! That is what I'm talking about. Duff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 The only question now is can I get it assembled by July 2 to drive to Virginia Beach and Charlottesville, Virginia I am going to retire on this job, as it is I am gaining weight You'll have it done before then. If you're gaining weight during the repair, you must be drinking too much beer... Isn't it funny how you can work in the heat all day drinking beer and not feel the effects of it? I once did a hub assembly on my 74 Eldorado in West Palm Beach in August and went through two cases of beer with my friend and felt nothing... That Eldorado had a massive front end.... Indeed, fixing Cadillacs is a sobering experience! The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 The only question now is can I get it assembled by July 2 to drive to Virginia Beach and Charlottesville, Virginia I am going to retire on this job, as it is I am gaining weight You'll have it done before then. If you're gaining weight during the repair, you must be drinking too much beer... Isn't it funny how you can work in the heat all day drinking beer and not feel the effects of it? I once did a hub assembly on my 74 Eldorado in West Palm Beach in August and went through two cases of beer with my friend and felt nothing... That Eldorado had a massive front end.... Indeed, fixing Cadillacs is a sobering experience! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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