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Engine overheating


Stan S

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Occasionally some mechanic pulls down a Northstar that is overheating because of less than 50% anitifreeze or a slipping water pump belt or leaves covering the raidiator or whatever, then drops one of the cams and wants the owner to pay for it all.

The things to look for in a head gasket diagnosis are:

  • Coolant not changed for a period exceeding the warnings (5 years for red, 2 years for green)
  • Another few months to a year without incident,
  • Gradually increasing loss of coolant in freeway driving without discernible leaks,
  • Temperature spikes about 30 seconds after topping a hill or passing a truck on a 2-lane road,
  • Gradually increasing sensitivity to overheating after topping a hill or whatever, and, finally,
  • Failing a pressure test and testing positive for combustion products in the coolant.
If it's overheating at traffic lights while stopped, it probably isn't a head gasket. If it's leaking coolant, it probably isn't a head gasket.

Any good radiator shop or general purpose mechanic can test for combustion products in the coolant and rule out head leakage in a few minutes. If it's a possibility, that's a good idea because it either ends the diagnosis process or gets you into the overheating checklist in the FSM.

Never pull down an engine unless the coolant tests positive for combustion products. If it doesn't, then the head gaskets are just fine.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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this is why i push so hard for the CO2 exhaust test these days.

all the other tests are a PITA .. for anyone, a PITA.

Stan will NEVER know if the headgaskets were a problem.

something that could have been verrfied in 10 min and less than $100.

hell, even a non-car guy can do the test - no mechanic needed.

what is $100 vs $3,500 ? next to nothing.

these days, at the other site, it seems i see a new headgasket car issue

every single day, day in, day out.

the headgasket issue is so prevalent on these N*'s that everyone that

comes across my screen with a overheating, i tell them to do the CO2 test ASAP.

sadly to say, the headgasket batting avg is over 50% .. it is a fast yes / no test.

============================

Stan,

i agree 100% with RANGER. the WOT is no way going to do that to the

cam lobes, not in 50,000 miles, not in 100,000 miles, not even in 200,000 miles

it is either a oil flow problem or a bad batch cam that didn't get hardened properly.

you can actually have the lobes checked for hardness if you had a warranty

problem.

.

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I finally gave up trying to find the problem. Took it to a local shop this eve. Service manager-owner suspects head gasket. They will diagnose maybe tomorrow and let me know. He quoted approx. $3500 for both head gaskets and timeserts. $7500 installed for a Jasper reman with a 3 yr warranty. Does this sound in line for any of you who have had this work done?

What did the service manager owner do to suspect head gaskets. Did they test the coolant for combustion by products?

The shop did a chemical test for combustion by products in the coolant. The test was positive for carbon monoxide (CO). This was the main reason for the engine teardown revealing a leaking head gasket. Some have mentioned testing for Carbon Dioxide (CO2). Why would you test for CO2? Isn't CO2 naturally in air and water?

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Good I am glad they did the test before ripping it apart, when you said, the manager SUSPECTS a head gasket, that was not clear.. Good luck with this, let us know how it turns out

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Yeah, I'm pretty relieved that they tested for combustion products before tearing down the engine. The "flat cam" story put me off, though. And, they were at least $1,000 high on the remanufactured engine. Maintain it well when you get it back, and remember, Northstars live for WOT.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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we could have saved so much time here with this bit of info.

i'm thinking that info was avail at the start of this thread?

that shop has a smart mechanic that does the cheap and fast test

first. he saved you a ton of $$$ by not spending another 6 hrs

doing all the other PITA tests.

once the engine fails the CO test, TESTING IS OVER !

my mistake where ever i said CO2, i dont know what i was thinking.

of course it is CO, EXHAUST GASES. both CO and CO2 are found in air,

but not at the concentrations needed to fail that test.

I finally gave up trying to find the problem. Took it to a local shop this eve. Service manager-owner suspects head gasket. They will diagnose maybe tomorrow and let me know. He quoted approx. $3500 for both head gaskets and timeserts. $7500 installed for a Jasper reman with a 3 yr warranty. Does this sound in line for any of you who have had this work done?

What did the service manager owner do to suspect head gaskets. Did they test the coolant for combustion by products?

The shop did a chemical test for combustion by products in the coolant. The test was positive for carbon monoxide (CO). This was the main reason for the engine teardown revealing a leaking head gasket. Some have mentioned testing for Carbon Dioxide (CO2). Why would you test for CO2? Isn't CO2 naturally in air and water?

===============

i'm with you. the N* has got to be one of the best engines ever made in the planet,

the headgasket failures are a small % of millions of engines out there in hudnreds

of car models. do people here know that the N* is the only automotive engine

approved by the FAA for flight? YES, IMO, it is an AWESOME design by GM.

the headgasket failures have also more to do with owner error and GM's failure to

strongly advice about the danger of LOW COOLANT, specially when the coolant is older.

most every headgasket failure has a history of running for extended time periods with a

low level of older coolant and possibly a slight overheat cuz of that.

then the dex-cool starts to break down into that oxide mud.

what seems odd is that not always does the Low Coolant sensor picks up on

the low level.

regardless, should that happen, there seems to be a consensus that the cooland, specially

dex-cool can handle all that for awhile, but not for 5 or 10 years. the protection is used up

every day it sits in the aluminum and should that low coolant level occur, you want full strength

coolant in your system to avoid the failure. therefore the 2 year coolant change out.

KHE

Keep in mind that for every Northstar with bad headgaskets, there are thousands of them running around without any issues. Internet forums tend to exaggerate issues because it is where prople come to seek help for problems or to vent.

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Update! Heard back from the shop yesterday. The engine is out and the heads removed and sent to the machine shop to have them pressure checked. The bad news is the exhaust lobes on the cams are flat spotted. New cams and lifters about another $1700 on top of the $3500 for the headgasket- timesert job. So much for those wide open runs and "drive it like you stole it" line of thinking! Getting real close to the cost of a reman engine. I guess hindsight is 20/20? Must say I am real discouraged with the Northstar at this point. This will be more money spent on one engine than than I've spent for repairs on the 16 other vehicles I've owned in the past 40 years.

We have never had a failed camshaft reported on this board. I would definitely ask them for the old cams back - my BS radar is going off...

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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The Caddy came back home yesterday, along with the old exhaust cams and lifters. Six lobes on one cam and five on the other were flat spotted, along with 11 worn lifters. Someone stated we never had a worn camshaft on the board before. Well I guess I'm the first, but probably not the last. Also someone mentioned posting pictures of the cams but I don't think with my photographic skills you could tell the difference from a picture. Using a micrometer there is about .035 difference in the lobe height comparing the best to the worst. There is a picture of the worn lifters in the FSM. Pretty much if you've seen a worn lifter you know what it looks like. I wish our old Northstar guru still frequented the board, (anyone know what happened to him?) I would like to ship him one of the cams.

One more thought before some of you jump on my case about poor maintenence being the cause of the head gasket-cam failure. I've been servicing and maintaining everything from lawmowers to eighteen wheelers and heavy equipment longer the some of you have been alive. This Caddy has been maintained better than most, including coolant changes with DexCool and sealant tabs, oil and filter changes according to the OLI. Frequent WOT runs! Never a overheating problem OR a low coolant light or a loss of coolant prior to the trip to the mountains the day before my first post. So as it stands now I've got about $5700 invested in a $7500 Caddy the uses oil and needs front suspension work. I know there are thousands of trouble free Cadillacs on the road, but at this point I wouldn't recommend one to anybody. Don't think I will play the lottery again! Stan

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Sorry to hear that Stan. Sometimes "stuff" happens no matter how well you maintain them.

Al had to leave due to some problems at work. Not sure if it was what he said, when he said it or what, but the General was not happy. Sure miss him.

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the subject gentleman is not allowed to post in web-sites as condition of employment.

his writing were removed from several places.

i continue to quote his wisdom and place the "name withheld by request"

where such applies.

i still feel that the wear had to do with a defective batch that got away w/o proper heat treatment,

meaning "soft surfaces" . that is no one's fault but GM for not doing quality control in a way to

avoid such problems..

99 Concours, 96k mi?

does the car have excessive number of cold starts where the engine is not yet getting enough oil?

car maint by the book, including dex-cool and no prior overheats?

you bought the car NEW?

you know that since '98, and for 96,000 miles all you say is so?

my computer is saying "can't compute"

what are we missing?

The Caddy came back home yesterday, along with the old exhaust cams and lifters. Six lobes on one cam and five on the other were flat spotted, along with 11 worn lifters. Someone stated we never had a worn camshaft on the board before. Well I guess I'm the first, but probably not the last. Also someone mentioned posting pictures of the cams but I don't think with my photographic skills you could tell the difference from a picture. Using a micrometer there is about .035 difference in the lobe height comparing the best to the worst. There is a picture of the worn lifters in the FSM. Pretty much if you've seen a worn lifter you know what it looks like. I wish our old Northstar guru still frequented the board, (anyone know what happened to him?) I would like to ship him one of the cams.

One more thought before some of you jump on my case about poor maintenence being the cause of the head gasket-cam failure. I've been servicing and maintaining everything from lawmowers to eighteen wheelers and heavy equipment longer the some of you have been alive. This Caddy has been maintained better than most, including coolant changes with DexCool and sealant tabs, oil and filter changes according to the OLI. Frequent WOT runs! Never a overheating problem OR a low coolant light or a loss of coolant prior to the trip to the mountains the day before my first post. So as it stands now I've got about $5700 invested in a $7500 Caddy the uses oil and needs front suspension work. I know there are thousands of trouble free Cadillacs on the road, but at this point I wouldn't recommend one to anybody. Don't think I will play the lottery again! Stan

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With 51 posts you have come here and been very aggressive with your opinions. Now you may be a genious and have been an observer for a long time but your aggressive opinions are hard to take, since you joined May 2007. Typically when you join a board you observe before taking over with aggressive posts (not that taking over with aggressive posts is ever right). Please objectively re-read your posts before responding to this.

I don't think its fair or possible to state that this is GM's fault at all and to do so is irresponsible and presumptive.

Is this a ONE owner? How did the prior owner maintain this car?

Was this car ever a rental?

Was it originally leased? Leased cars are abused

Was the oil ALWAYS changed on schedule?

Did the oil EVER not get changed on time? and say go 20K miles without a change?

Is there an oiling problem where the oil pressure is not right?

Has quality oil with the CORRECT API rating ALWAYS been used?

Has the oil EVER been allowed to run low?

Could coolant ever have gotten into the crankcase?

Has the engine ever been subjected to abuse in its life? (very high uncontrolled RPM, cold starts with improper oil)

Has the filter been changed on time?

Is the oil cooler flowing properly?

What did I forget?

Finally what was the symptom that the car showed, for the dealer to look at the CAMs and determine there was a problem before they inspected them? Why did they go to the CAMS so quickly and not think lifter, valve, ignition, or compression problem?

Unless all of this has been done and known, to blame GM 96,000 miles later is BS, this problem would have shown itself a long time ago on a 99 vehicle with 96,000 miles through a rough idle, etc.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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please, do read my post again.

what you say is not much different than what i said.

as you stated yourself, i also have never seen a flat cam

i think this owner is not telling us something. i eluded to that more

than once in this thread. even sadder, is the attitude that he will never buy

or recommend a N*, based on what?

IMO, the N* family is the premier car engine of the century.

BUT, if all was done as per GM requirements, and the owner is telling us everything,

the only solution i can then see is a bad batch that didnt get tested for proper hardness,

something would be out of the statistical range - that would be GM's job.

did the dealer do the right things or did they "create work"? dont know.

the dealer flies the GM Cadillac flag. who is responsible for good or bad dealers?

GM - pure and simple.

my apologies if i stepped on your toes. not my intent at all.

i love American cars, i own several - i do not own any foreign cars,

except for the Allante that is a 50/50 breed.

that said, i can assure you that GM is neither perfect or an angel.

many of us have paid and continue to pay great deal for the

occasional mistakes GM makes and refuses to acknowledge.

GM's attitude is hurting GM and the American auto industry. that has nothing to do

with fairness, irresponsibility and presumption. GM USA will most likely not be in

biz in 20 years unless there is a huge turn in attitude. that is a fact and a very SAD

trend ongoing since about 1980. you dont have to listen to my aggressive opinion,

just talk to the workers losing their jobs every year.

the GM Eng mentioned above, might even agree as well as several other GM employees

that lurk these sites. he came to this site and others to HELP GM owners and was

harshly reprimanded by GM mgt - instead he should have been given an award - IMHO.

again, my apologies ...

With 51 posts you have come here and been very aggressive with your opinions. Now you may be a genious and have been an observer for a long time but your aggressive opinions are hard to take, since you joined May 2007. Typically when you join a board you observe before taking over with aggressive posts. Please objectively re-read your posts before responding to this.

I don't think its fair or possible to state that this is GM's fault at all and to do so is irresponsible and presumptive.

Is this a ONE owner? How did the prior owner maintain this car?

Was this car ever a rental?

Was the oil ALWAYS changed on schedule?

Did the oil EVER not get changed on time? and say go 20K miles without a change?

Is there an oiling problem where the oil pressure is not right?

Has quality oil with the CORRECT API rating ALWAYS been used?

Has the oil EVER been allowed to run low?

Could coolant ever have gotten into the crankcase?

Has the engine ever been subjected to abuse in its life? (very high uncontrolled RPM, cold starts with improper oil)

Has the filter been changed on time?

Is the oil cooler flowing properly?

What did I forget?

Finally what was the symptom that the car showed, for the dealer to look at the CAMs and determine there was a problem before they inspected them? Why did they go to the CAMS so quickly and not think lifter, valve, ignition, or compression problem?

Unless all of this has been done and known, to blame GM 96,000 miles later is BS, this problem would have shown itself a long time ago.

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You are not stepping on my toes, its just that we need to be careful with our statements and opinions. And yes, while you did say this:

99 Concours, 96k mi?

does the car have excessive number of cold starts where the engine is not yet getting enough oil?

car maint by the book, including dex-cool and no prior overheats?

you bought the car NEW?

you know that since '98, and for 96,000 miles all you say is so

you said this prior to the above statements:

"i still feel that the wear had to do with a defective batch that got away w/o proper heat treatment, meaning "soft surfaces" . that is no one's fault but GM for not doing quality control in a way to avoid such problems.."

That is sort of like shooting your neighbor, having no proof that it was his dog that crapped on your lawn.

This board is searchable on Google now, you make an unsupported statement like that and it gets used, believed and it becomes fact.

One of the problems that exists in the world today is that evidence, facts, analysis, and root causes are not examined, and off the cuff opinions containing bias are thrown out like fact. Turn on CNN when you get a chance.

I am sorry if I appeared heavy, but I am only interested in facts, support, etc before shooting GM for a car that is 8 model years old, with 96,000 miles on, that was diagnosed by a dealer before he took it apart and we don't know the history or facts about this car.

If you look at the other thread here in the last couple of days a member thought it was ok to wait until 150,000 miles to change his coolant, HUH?, and blamed GM.... WRONG... The facts are all I am concerned with and when I see strong unsupported opinions ripping/blaming GM, I look for support. And no, I am not a GM employee nor do I have stock in them, I am just a GM lover.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Fools rush in... Uh, here I am commenting on a thread where the prudent would only observe. :blink:

First, Northstars don't get flat cams; see my post #21 on page 2 of this thread, regarding my habit of revving my Quad 4 HO, an ancestor of the Northstar that bears an amazing resemblance in many respects, particularly the valve gear, to 7,200 rpm for seven years. My original Northstar engine had cams that were just fine at 116,600 miles, if performance is any guide.

Second, GM doesn't sell cars with soft cams -- or at least I never heard of a GM car or any other car that went back on warranty work with soft cams. I think that's pretty rare because it's so easy to test in QC, and it will show real quick in final grinding and polishing, etc. etc.

Third, a soft cam will go flat at 1,000 to 5,000 miles, not 98,000 miles.

Fourth, GM has some marketing philosophies that irritate me, and they go a lot farther back than the 1990's. I'm thinking of Engine Charlie Wilson's comment in the 1950's "What's good for General Motors is good for the Country!," their marketing policy of defining showroom models about $1500 more expensive than what marketing research tells them the public wants, their Great Depression policy of having dealers buy up used cars to drive up prices, etc. But, since I make my own decisions and and do my homework before I talk to a dealer, it isn't a problem for me; I've bought a lot of new cars in my time, all but one GM, and if I buy another car in the foreseeable future, it will probably be a CTS with direct injection V6. ;) I'm soft-talking my wife about picking up a pearl white 1994 ESC with 170,000 miles and head gasket problems and fixing the engine, for her.

I was just looking at my Jasper invoice for my remanufactured engine the other day, and the shipping weight is 300 pounds. It's 300 horsepower, too, and has changed the way the world builds engines since it was first introduced in 1993.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Jim while I understand what you are saying about observing and maintaining the peace and not appear to jump on the band wagon and allow 'freedom of speech", yada, yada, yada, that is a passive stance. To me its as important to stand up and be heard when the need arises (which you just did). To not stand up when its necessary to refute erroneous opinions/conclusions or correct the record only serves to weaken our voice as a whole. We have a lot of experience, knowledge and intelligence here and its necessary to stand up when necessary and say, I object, etc. This to me serves to direct the board in a more intelligent fashion while eliminating urban legend, rumors, erroneous opinions, emotional responses, bias, bashing, and my favorite unsupported statements., etc.

This past winter, I left my oil change light on throughout the cold winter and did not change the oil, due to laziness, unemployment, etc. I developed a valve tick and I want to kick myself in the butt. Since I used 10W40, it has subsided. But with the EPAs mandating to reduce the ZDDP anti-wear compounds in the oil, not changing the oil can be catastrophic if the oil's friction/lube package is depleted..., once depleted, the engine's wearing surfaces (CAMS, Lifters, etc) are vulnerable. Poor oil change practices are serious now.

Thanks

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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It appears that in cars, camshaft failure is seldom caused by camshaft material or hardening issues, but is rather caused by problems with break-in or lubrication. At 90K+ miles I think we can eliminate any break-in issues. I would think that worn lifters and worn cam suggests that it was a lubrication issue. Whether coolant in the oil caused the wear, or there was some other issue is not clear.

I do understand how frustrating it is when you have expensive repairs on your Cadillac; been there, done that. I still am happy to recommend the Cadillac products to friends, family, strangers. I would not recommend a 10 yo vehicle to someone not prepared to maintain and repair it however. The new vehicle warranty of 5 yrs 50K miles (now longer on powertrain) is good; after 50K miles however, repairs are the owner's responsibility.

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

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I've had my Cadillac for 10 years now and, on the average, I find it a low maintenance car. When you are active on a board that is famous for accurate diagnosis and successful DIY and dealer negotiations, you see everything bad all the time, just like a dealer technician.

I recently did a cost analysis for a friend with a Toyota Prius because recent articles have said things like mandatory main battery change for $6K at 5-6 years, etc., and I found out that since 2001 the Prius has had one recall (steering linkage) and the main maintenance items are the primary battery at about $2500 to $3000 at 6 to 8 years, and the secondary battery at about $150 every 30,000 miles; it doesn't have any other common expensive maintenance issues. So, the Prius is a low maintenance car, even with a main battery replacement in the timeline.

My information is old and vague, but I think that an average car needs an average of $200 a month in maintenance, long-term. Brakes, suspensions, shocks, struts and tires last longer than they once did so that figure may be lower, but inflation and the higher cost of some items will push the number back up. That comes to $2.4K a year, on average. For 12,000 miles a year at $2.50 a gallon and 20 mpg, we have $1500 for gas. Now, how much is it for insurance?

With meticulous maintenance, the life of the 4T80E transmission seems to be about 220,000 miles, based on posts on this board. The engine life seems to be higher, with 350,000 miles seen here and on an eBay posting for a used Deville. That leaves the inevitable items exposed to roads and salt: struts, brakes, air leveling, RSS, and suspension sensors and systems are the expensive maintenance items that no one is immune to. Result? My experience, observation, and opinion is that the Cadillac is a low-maintenance car, if you keep the oil and coolant changed on schedule.

I'm nervous about my oil when my OLI reads less than 50% life in my oil. I get really antsy when it reads 40%, which is the lowest I would let it go. If the "Change Engine Oil" message ever lit up I would run, not walk, to the nearest Mobil 1 people and wait, wringing my hands -- but that's just me. My wife routinely lets the car tell her when to change oil, and it seems OK, although the lifters were getting a little loose when it was cold at 8 years and 40,000 miles (that's right, 5,000 miles a year). I put in a ZDDP concentrate last year and all that went away, though, and it runs like new. Of course, we did have to change an intake manifold gasket on her 3.4 L V6 HO last year to cure a coolant usage problem; we let the Dexcool go too long on that one, too, and I had it pressure tested after I did my engine and found that.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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well, if my neighbor had the only dog in town, that be about right.

nope, i am not a GM lover as you claim to be.

but i'm not a GM hater either.

i did step on your toes by calling GM ugly - i did, i did, i did.

talk to almost any Allante owner and you will also feel that, having

been screwed over and over by GM Mgt.

i did apologize for doing that and not only did you not acknowledge,

but you went at it some more, in public, again.

in my world we call that ARROGANCE.

i am an American car lover, i respect the worker of America,

although soon that worker will most likely have no job to go to.

i know, i only got 51 posts vs your 4,000+ posts, so i havent paid my

dues by posting as many and i havent adopted a screen name that

yells of GM love.

i was invited to drop inhere to help where i could, not to be bullied and

dumped on .. i dont need that, it isnt like i make money doing this and

i am not interested on a turf war..

i dont know who you are, never said anything against you or anyone else,

i put forth my experiences with cars as you have. they are just different.

gotta tell you, i got my own site to deal with.

tell you what .. enjoy your site, farewell and best wishes...

anyone that wants MY opinion / experiences can follow this search to its

origin and talk to me. with goggle, do a < cadillac allante xyz facts >,

not sure why anyone would, but nevertheless ...

you all take care .. that includes you, BodybyFisher.

you do know plenty about cars, and except for the territorial thing,

you seem like an ok guy.

You are not stepping on my toes, its just that we need to be careful with our statements and opinions. And yes, while you did say this:

99 Concours, 96k mi?

does the car have excessive number of cold starts where the engine is not yet getting enough oil?

car maint by the book, including dex-cool and no prior overheats?

you bought the car NEW?

you know that since '98, and for 96,000 miles all you say is so

you said this prior to the above statements:

"i still feel that the wear had to do with a defective batch that got away w/o proper heat treatment, meaning "soft surfaces" . that is no one's fault but GM for not doing quality control in a way to avoid such problems.."

That is sort of like shooting your neighbor, having no proof that it was his dog that crapped on your lawn.

This board is searchable on Google now, you make an unsupported statement like that and it gets used, believed and it becomes fact.

One of the problems that exists in the world today is that evidence, facts, analysis, and root causes are not examined, and off the cuff opinions containing bias are thrown out like fact. Turn on CNN when you get a chance.

I am sorry if I appeared heavy, but I am only interested in facts, support, etc before shooting GM for a car that is 8 model years old, with 96,000 miles on, that was diagnosed by a dealer before he took it apart and we don't know the history or facts about this car.

If you look at the other thread here in the last couple of days a member thought it was ok to wait until 150,000 miles to change his coolant, HUH?, and blamed GM.... WRONG... The facts are all I am concerned with and when I see strong unsupported opinions ripping/blaming GM, I look for support. And no, I am not a GM employee nor do I have stock in them, I am just a GM lover.

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Yes you did apologize 'for stepping on my toes', and I said you DID NOT step on my toes, that was OK...

I also said I am SORRY for being heavy... What more would you like?

What I carried on about was that you said "what you say is not much different than what i said", but you also said, "I still feel that the wear had to do with a defective batch that got away w/o proper heat treatment, meaning "soft surfaces" . that is no one's fault but GM for not doing quality control in a way to

avoid such problems.." To me, that statement, blaming GM, given the age of the car, the mileage, the fact that the dealer talked about CAMS before he tore it apart, was over the top and unnecessary and it has nothing to do with territory, it has to do with making unsupported outlandish statements. I spoke to the service manager from the local Caddy dealer about your statement today and he laughed and said, IF that were true, the problem would have arisen a long time ago, we don't see CAM problems..., just as others have said here....

As far as me continuing this publicly, let me remind you that it was you, who publicly disparaged General Motor's quality control as responsible for the alleged bad CAM

I may come across as arrogant, but I come across with facts, if you find something factual I said wrong let me know. As far as your experience with your Allante, you are allowing it to color your thinking. GM has made some problematic cars (468, Cimarron, 3100/3800 intake manifold gaskets, Getrag, Allante, Seville Diesel, Catera), I will be the first to admit, but I don't dwell on it or allow it to color my thinking. The multi-billion dollar shuttle has killed astronauts and even its latest mission was marred with loose heat tiles. If you don't take risks, you don't move forward.

Its not territorial, its about unsupported opinions and facts and when you blame GM for quality control issues 8 years and 96,000 miles later, my response is not arrogance its in defense of GM..and it's to point out the illogic in blaming GM. If you feel the need to move on, that is your decision.

By the way its close to 10,000 posts, not 4,000, add Scotty to it.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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did the 1 owner question ever get answered? I ask because if their was 50,000 miles on it when the current owner got it....there's a lot of neglect that can happen in that time frame...anything from the wrong grade of oil, to not changing it, to simply having the piss beat out of it.

I bite my tongue when I want to comment on the 3000 dollar quote the dealer gave me for a new BPMV and whatever the other half of that unit is.

The Green's Machines

1998 Deville - high mileage, keeps on going, custom cat-back exhaust

2003 Seville - stock low mileage goodness!

2004 Grand Prix GTP CompG - Smaller supercharger pulley, Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Dyno tune, etc

1998 Firebird Formula - 408 LQ9 Stroker motor swap and all sorts of go fast stuff

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His last post was number 33:

Stan S last post, no. 33

He said that the exhaust cam lobes showed a difference in lift of 35 thousandths from the highest to the lowest, and that 11 lifters were out of spec, too. Is that normal for 98,000 miles? He says that he is experienced in maintenance of engines and cars and has taken good care of his Cadillac. If so, I would like to understand what happened to his cam lobe lubrication on his exhaust cams.

It's interesting that the intake cams and lifters weren't affected. The intake cam has the same lift and duration as the exhaust in the 275 HP. And, Stan S's engine had the same problem on both heads.

Stan S also said that he has a bill of $5700 on the engine. This is what I was afraid of with my motor last year. My remanufactured engine was about $6500 installed.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
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Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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His last post was number 33:

Stan S last post, no. 33

He said that the exhaust cam lobes showed a difference in lift of 35 thousandths from the highest to the lowest, and that 11 lifters were out of spec, too. Is that normal for 98,000 miles? He says that he is experienced in maintenance of engines and cars and has taken good care of his Cadillac. If so, I would like to understand what happened to his cam lobe lubrication on his exhaust cams.

It's interesting that the intake cams and lifters weren't affected. The intake cam has the same lift and duration as the exhaust in the 275 HP. And, Stan S's engine had the same problem on both heads.

Stan S also said that he has a bill of $5700 on the engine. This is what I was afraid of with my motor last year. My remanufactured engine was about $6500 installed.

This it the type of question the Guru could have answered. Could the intake and exhaust lobes have separate oiling mains. Did this car have a leak at the case half? Or could an internal leak at the case half seal have dropped the pressure to an 'exhaust main"

post-2998-1182004769_thumb.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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