Jump to content
CaddyInfo Cadillac Forum

Need schematic or diagram of Injection system 94 STS


The Fred

Recommended Posts

I looked at a new injector and didn't see any of these

I think it was a delco but I'm not sure

If I have to buy injectors I'm going to give Cadillac a piece of my mind I tell you what

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 218
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I know it has been awhile but my grandfather went down sick and they even had to put him on a helicopter and I've had to stay with my grandmother since but I am done with that now and grandpa he is doing real well now.. they gave him a 25% chance "if that" when he went on the table but he is a tough old bastad god bless him :)

Before he went in he told me "take care of your mother" meaning my grandmother and I nearly fell over dead myself because I am already taking care of one of them... *sigh* wow

While we were over there I managed to stop at Donovans and I think they remember my grandmother buying her van there so they were very attentive and imagine this- they made SENSE!! 9 places here told me that seal didn't exist..

Well Donovans knew what it was and even found a part # for it..

17113143 is what I need a picture of.. it is $65 so I want to be sure it has what I need....

I've e-mailed delco for a photo

Thanks guys

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear your Grandfather is not well, allthough it sounds like he is doing better now.

Did they have a name for the mystery green part?

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry about your Grandfather

However this will be the second time I asked you to KEEP your posts on the same problem in the SAME thread.

You DO NOT need to create a new thread EVERYTIME, you have a new aspect of the same problem

PLEASE try to think of this board a little and not your own needs. Your problem is going to be IMPOSSIBLE to follow if you don't keep it in the SAME thread.... You have droppings in many many threads about this same problem.

And please DON'T say yea yea you are right blah blah blah.... just try to keep it all posts on the same problem within the same thread.

Here is an example of what I mean, this thread is 13 pages long.. You will notice that within the thread it 'drifted' a little bit, but I stuck with it till the END and the COMPLETION of the problem!

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...p;hl=Compressor

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought that alot of people didn't know how to get to page 2 or page 6 (because once it got to page 6 no one saw the question, I think I tried to ask it on that thread you mention the other day)

Sorry about that

I won't make new posts any more I let that one go a long long time so I thought it would be alright

PS: I really think that is what prompted me to create a new thread.. no one seemed to notice the other one any more, there were no responses... I agree with your point and I will not be making any new threads but I also kind of wanted to let everyone know that I didn't just forget caddyinfo, I felt like some might think, well, he got what he wanted and then he left, didn't want it to seem like that type of thing.

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What seal is this you're talking about?

I'm lost....

2003 Seville STS 43k miles with the Bose Sound, Navigation System, HID Headlamps, and MagneRide

1993 DeVille. Looks great inside and out! 298k miles!

IPB Image

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What seal is this you're talking about?

I'm lost....

LOL That's exactly the point BBF was making. Many of us are lost. The Fred needs to keep it to ONE thread, in the future, so we know what the heck is going on. I got so frustrated that I just stopped reading. Hopefully it's a lesson learned.

"Burns" rubber

" I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. "

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed,

Maybe if someone would have responded to me in the other thread I wouldn't have had to make this one..

I need a picture of the part number to see if it has what I want.

No one has one but one human being happened to know what I need and thinks it might be in there so

I will have to order the part in and see if it will work.

No big deal just I hate wasting money.

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed,

Maybe if someone would have responded to me in the other thread I wouldn't have had to make this one..

I need a picture of the part number to see if it has what I want.

No one has one but one human being happened to know what I need and thinks it might be in there so

I will have to order the part in and see if it will work.

No big deal just I hate wasting money.

Maybe if someone would have responded in the other thread?

Fred, if you look, the best of the best have NOT been visiting and responding to your NUMEROUS threads. You have TOO much extraneous BS in your threads as I have said and you are NOT focused. So THAT is one of the reasons you are NOT getting answers, PLUS..... sometimes a problem, issue or part has NOT been seen before... This is a two way street, you need to provide detailed, concise, accurate feedback, if not we are not able to help you! The guns, lakes, girls, suing gas stations, etc puts a lot of members off. Understand that members are doing you a favor, acting like you are not being responded to will NOT help you get the help you need..

Again, I think your problem is beyond you, you need to take the car to a good mechanic at this point. Your feedback is not adequate to permit this board to help. If you look I have tried on many occasions to bring you back in focus. I have asked questions and have not received answers to them. You took this car to the dealer or mechanic? I don't think I ever heard the outcome, and why they never fixed it.. You immediately ask questions as to how they can tell an injector is not firing, that is a question you needed to ask THEM to provide feedback here. I still don't know what happened when JIM and you determined that half the injectors were not working, what ever happened to that? That was dropped.. How long did it take for us to find out that you could NOT go over 70 mph? Did you do a fuel pressure test and WHAT was the result?

Personally I think you need to sit down and REFOCUS this thread. Start from the beginning and detail exactly what is wrong and what has been done, what the mechanics said, etc.. Before you went to the mechanic you had 4 injectors out, after the visit to the mechanic you had 2 out? This has gotten too confusing as I said... Refocus this, I know you tried before but all of the extraneous threads and rhetoric have created problems for you.

I want to see this type of response:

1) changed and gapped plugs (AC)

2) changed ignition wires (OEM)

3) changed fuel filter

4) changed air filter

5) Checked codes etc etc etc

6) changed the FPR

7) I checked the fuel pressure and it was X with the key on and X at idle

The car is doing this, this and this. How does it start? How does it idle? How does it cruise? Is the speed still limited to 70? Is it backfiring? Does the check engine light flash?

Details Man Details

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fisher you can see that I posted two replies to this thread and waited for a response before creating a new thread...

So I did do as I was asked, see :)

The detailed rundown is somewhere in this thread

I've done everything- even the fuel pressure test- that also should be somewhere in this thread.

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went out and started it after letting it sit for over a week and it started right up.. no long cranking or any of a thing

One code P037 (E037) ............ Shorted MAT Sensor Signal

I'll post a rundown as requested if I can't find the other one I'll rewrite

I've been running this down and I found the other main thread I made about this..

It also ended in me waiting for a response and never receiving one....

I guess everything has just been tried, eh?

I've:

Replaced:

Fuel filter

Plugs

Wires

Fuel pressure regulator

and

Cleaned battery cables

Cleaned / dried all wires and connections I can find

Had battery / Alt tested

Had professional injector cleaning done

Had dealer diagnosis (pointless. once I fix this I'm going to get a refund)

Fuel pressure tested correct bursts to around 40 when key turned on and steady when running

I still suspect these to be the problem

And I still don't know about the tectonic plates someone told me to clean

IPB Image

Now, with these broken, I think that has to be the problem.

I've been all over hell to find them and I am going to get ahold of them somewhere.

There doesn't seem to be any other seal on the bottom of the injector no o-ring.. nothing

So isn't it reasonable to strongly suspect these?

Would love to know more about the phonelic plates and how to clean them as well

I don't remember, I think someone told me how but I was too mad at the time to think. My fault.

Also the power brakes are not working right again.. have to press down the pedal pretty hard to stop it.

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Copy of problem writeup and link to thread with alot of info on this

(I was deadended on that one as well... no responses, so I created a new thread)

(In the future I will just bump the main thread now and then until someone responds instead of creating new ones.. you're 100% correct, new threads created makes a mess of solving the problem. I'm sure you can understand why I thought it was necessary and I certainly understand your point about new threads, it's a good one.)

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10863

^^^^^COPIED FROM ABOVE URL^^^^^

The only codes I get are 042 and 044 o2 sensors sensing a lean mixture

I've replaced the FPR and now it idles real fine

But when I try to drive it the throttle response is slow and the rpm goes up real slow too.. so here I am trying to get up to 35mph and it takes a long long time there. Even if I jam down on the accelerator it just rumbles up to speed. It seems like if I put the pedal about 1/4 of the way down there is a bit of a "sweet" spot where I can get "some power"

Someone mentioned that I needed to clean the tectonic plates or what ever they are.. so I guess I will try to do that when I can get back ahold of a torque wrench. I've cleaned the heck out of the intake with intake cleaner. Would that also help clean the hembonic plate things?

The story on this was:

First problem happened when I got gas at the KWIK shop.. was low on gas put about 1/4 tank in.

Awhile later it was running just a little bit rough I'd say it was running about 90% normal.

No bogging down at all.

Then I had a no start condition until I added some gas from Conoco and after I mixed that in it cranked a little while and started up and was just perfect.

A couple of weeks later I got gas at the KWIK shop again. was very very low on gas and put about 1/2 of a tank in there. Drove up to the parking strip, went in to pay, came out and started it up - as soon as I was driving off it started acting up and bogging down quite a bit. By the time I made it 3 miles to wal-mart it was bogging down quite a bit. I went into wal-mart awhile maybe 20 minutes and when I came out it would not start.

3 hours I guess it was later I came back and it started after alot of cranking but the idle was terrible. As I was driving it home I had no power at all. Once I got it home it was hard to start and even backfired one time right when I first turned the key even before it cranked.

So here it is a couple weeks later I replaced the FPR and that fixed the idle (before it was idling as if it were missing two) and the starting. It idles great and starts real fast now.

But I've got to find out why the throttle response is so slow and why it just rumbles slowly up in rpm.. it's terrible!

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This has been one heck of a confusing problem.

Don't laugh at this question would you,

Hehe just kidding,

*sigh*

Those green things being broken... could those cause a vacuum leak or cause a lack of vacuum production? That would explain the power brake problem and me not finding a vacuum leak all in one shot..

I am still baffled and amazed at why pulling that one fuse that night while it was running did *NOTHING*... and now it does make some difference.. In this thread http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5803 post #5 a situation where 4 injectors are shut off is described.. my car is a VIN Y though and pulling that one injector fuse does now make a difference. That one night pulling that one fuse made no difference in the idle so I figured 4 injectors were shut down..

I know the fuse was good because I tried a known good one with the same result

From what I could tell the PCM problem with noise was on earlier models

This whole thing has, again, been very strange and confusing.

None of the codes set are ever relavent to anything

Except the 042 and 044 lean mixture sensed at 0/2 sensors

(And that went away, when I added gas.. I did have 042 rarely for awhile after that and that seemed to fit in with 4 injectors being shut off.. I've been SURE I found the problem about 100 times)

Page six of this thread has a perfect recap of EVERYTHING with relavent links to anything necessary... I'll get ahold of those green seals if I have to fly to Zimbavwe for goodness sakes and go from there I suppose.

In the mean time,

Just to find out if it makes a difference at all,

I am going to make something that will act like it is one of those green seals and see what happens.

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never run into anything like this in my life-

Where is the guru man I've heard about?

It seems like this is going to take a miracle even though it has to be something simple as apple pie

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do not pass go, go right to the dealer. No one here can help you we are a bunch of scrubs

Better yet, get a new name and rejoin the other board, im sure they will be able to help

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do not pass go, go right to the dealer. No one here can help you we are a bunch of scrubs

Better yet, get a new name and rejoin the other board, im sure they will be able to help

For goodness sakes :unsure:

No reason to get excited or offended there, :P

I didn't say or mean any such of a thing.. and I've been to the dealership. <_<

We have tried everything so logic says it is time to find a guru a Northstar expert B)

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly go find one. Your problems are too serious and too intermittant. Your method of communication is NOT concise, what you posted above it NOT concise, who do you think is going to read all of that?

Last night you have brake problems today you don't

Fred you have a vacuum leak, its been said.

GET OVER the seals, if they are NEEDED replace them, if NOT throw them out.... FIGURE THAT PROBLEM OUT, and GET OVER IT.... Before that? We can not help you are circle jerking here... FIX the obvious problems, replace the injectors and spend some money.... there is no miracle fix.. Order new injectors from gmotors.com... Its possible that those seals are left over from a prior problem why the heck would those seals ALL OF A SUDDEN SHOW UP... BE CONCISE, DETAILS ONLY

Im not offended, im at the end of being able to help you, being concise does NOT take 4 POSTS

Ever hear the expression, God helps those who help themselves? Try it... FIX THE OBVIOUS problems, GET THE SEALS IF THEY ARE MISSING. Pull the fuel rail up and see if anything is missing.... WE CAN'T DO THAT, WE CANT SEE YOUR PROBLEMS

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well you must know what I have been through trying to get ahold of those green seals.. right? And now I have a part number, that may or may not be right, went to the delco store, they say that part number doesn't exist- the dealer thinks I got the seals off of a spark plug

Etc

They're not missing.. they're broken, see the pictures..

What is intermittant about this problem?

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your brake problem is intermittant, last night hard pedal (an indication that you have a vacuum leak or LOW engine vacuum to the power booster) and today you say the brakes are OK..

There are NO rubber seals on the spark plugs

You need to pull up the fuel rail and have a look at it and see what seals are on the injectors. My fuel rail has upper and lower o-rings. I am not sure if your 94 is the same in that regard. Are there seals in the intake on your year that the fuel rail sits into?

When and if you pull the fuel rail turn on the key for 2 seconds (not start) and see if any of your injectors are leaking.

Could that seal you are showing been part of your FPR?

By now you should have cleaned the Phenolic spacers and mouse holes.

See this thread

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...;hl=mouse+holes

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The dealer tried to tell me I got that seal off of a spark plug

I know better because I didn't

They're off the injectors

Not being able to find them anywhere I used a short piece of heater hose and that should have them pretty much sealed and that didn't make any difference ... rrrrr :(

Healthy vacuum at the booster

Seemed like today, when I put my foot on the gas pedal that stiffened up the brake pedal.. odd.

MerryChristmas

IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image

Be a Capitalist or work for one.

IPB Image

Work for a Capitalist or be one.

MerryChristmas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They show this as your injector

http://www.rockauto.com/ref/ACDelco/Detail.html?217-299.jpg

That type of injector uses larger 'insert' type seals see the bottom of it. Its not an o-ring. The top appears to use an o-ring. See this

http://www.rockauto.com/ref/Airtex/Detail.html?1G1012.jpg

Compare that to this part on my car that uses O-Rings top and bottom

http://www.rockauto.com/ref/ACDelco/Detail.html?217-308.jpg

So you are correct, that green seal you have appears to be for your injectors (lower seal). When you pulled the fuel rail up did you notice any missing or damaged seals?

See this, they show this as your Fuel Injector Seal kit

http://198.208.187.182/internet/PartImage....partnbr=217-459

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...